Dáil debates

Thursday, 16 November 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions

Brexit Negotiations

12:35 pm

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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3. To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade the position regarding the situation in which no solution is found to avoid border controls with Northern Ireland; the status of talks to be held in December to discuss the future relationship in respect of same in view of comments made by the Taoiseach on 8 November 2017; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [48486/17]

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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On Wednesday of last week, the Taoiseach stated, " I am now of the view that it is likely we will be able to say that sufficient progress has been made at the December meeting, allowing us to move on to discussions on transition and the future arrangements." On Sunday, Michel Barnier said that EU member states need to start preparing for the collapse of the talks. At the October meeting, the Government's position was that insufficient progress had been made.

I have two questions on this matter. What changed and what progress was made between the October meeting and Taoiseach's statement last Wednesday that seemed to shift Ireland's position to us being able to move on? Does the Government agree with the leaked paper from the EU Commission which says if the UK leaves the customs union and the Single Market, it would be impossible to see how border controls with the North could be avoided?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach said he was more optimistic that we could move on to phase 2 in December than he was before the October meeting, when, clearly, there was no chance of that happening. Since the Taoiseach's statements, the leaked paper from the task force points to a number of things that Britain does not seem to be accommodating, so we have a problem. The Taoiseach recognises this also and that is why he has been asked about whether Ireland would use its veto and so on. This misses the point to some degree. The European Union is at one in respect of this matter. We have fantastic solidarity across the European Union on Irish issues. The head of the task force understands those issues in real detail and in my view there will be no need for a veto. I am of the opinion that the European Union will act as one and that member states will take their signal from the task force as to what is and is not acceptable in the context of sufficient progress.

There are two serious issues that are currently outstanding, namely, those relating to the financial settlement and the Irish Border. The British Government knows this and there is a big onus on it to come forward with some new thinking regarding the Border in the next few weeks. Any government must plan for a worst-case scenario and we will do that. I am aware that Deputy Donnelly has raised this issue a number of times. We are negotiating for a best-case scenario because that is what we need to do.

To be clear, the Government's position is consistent with that of the task force. Specifically, in order for North-South co-operation to function in the future, consistent with the Good Friday Agreement, we need to ensure there is no regulatory divergence on one part of the island versus the other. That is a real danger in the context of Brexit. This is why our position of Britain being part of the same customs union, whether that is a redesigned customs union or an extended Single Market, would solve a lot of these problems. In the absence of Britain, as a whole, doing this, we need some assurance on the island of Ireland that Northern Ireland will be the subject of unique and flexible solutions.

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his reply. We are all lined up in the context of what we want to see happen. Obviously, we would like to see the UK stay in the Single Market and the customs union. There is cross-party support for no controls or borders of any kind being put in place around the Six Counties. The Taoiseach said, "I am now of the view that it is likely we will be able to say that sufficient progress has been made at the December meeting". These communications are causing real concern. We met with business people from both sides of the Border yesterday. A transport businessman from Antrim told us that if phase two happens without the Border being conclusively sorted - not as in "good faith" but still with a reasonably high level of aspirations statements around regulatory equivalences and so on - he is going to move his business out of Northern Ireland. I appreciate that the Minister is doing everything he can but there is a gap in communications. I am of the view that the Taoiseach misspoke. I do not believe that sufficient progress has been made. I do not imagine that a lot more was done. The Minister has not laid out what progress has been made since the October statement and the statement last week. The Taoiseach probably misspoke. We need to be very careful. The Government needs to be very careful about the messages it is sending out in respect of the Border because business people are watching. The Taoiseach's comments were carried internationally across several news outlets. We need to be very careful about the messages we send out to people on both sides of the Border who are having to make decisions about what is likely to happen to their businesses and their communities in the coming months and years.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I agree that we need consistency because businesses cannot plan on the basis of weeks or months; they need to plan years ahead. This is why we need a long transition period, in my view. We have been giving very clear messages for the last week, through our party conference and since then. I gave very consistent messages to the Chancellor of the Exchequer and to the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, David Davis, when I was in London last week. Anybody who sees the positioning of the EU task force will see in that the Irish Government position, which is very clear and firm on the Border issues. It remains to be seen whether we can bring the British Government to accept the wording in that position. If we cannot we face a challenge and we face choices in December that will be difficult choices. It is important to say very clearly that the solidarity Ireland enjoys at prime ministerial and foreign ministerial level right across the European Union in the context of Northern Ireland issues and the Border is very strong. Nobody should make the assumption that because everyone wants to move on to talk about trade and future relationships - which, of course, we also do - that the Border issue is going to be brushed aside or fudged. I do not believe that it will be. This puts Ireland right in the middle of the issues that need to be resolved between now and December. That is where we are but we need to be firm on it.

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his reply. What he said is good to hear. He has outlined a clearer position than that outlined by the Taoiseach. I thank the Minister for that.

On contingency planning, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Mr. James Brokenshire, went to Brussels last week and said that the British Government does not support and will not seek any form of special or unique status for Northern Ireland. Mr. Brokenshire said that the UK wants convergence in animal health regulations but, at their core, his comments were, as I am sure the Minister will agree, quite negative and fell well short of addressing the issues as laid out by the Minister in respect of full regulatory equivalence and the concerns of businesses on both sides of the Border.

Fianna Fáil supports the Minister's call for a multi-year transition period but there are 498 days left and we have Monsieur Barnier and the BBC warning of collapse in the talks. All year the Government has promised to publish detailed sector by sector plans, including contingency for a hard Brexit. Now we will have to include contingency for a no-deal scenario and a disorderly Brexit. I cannot get any answer from the Taoiseach as to where these plans are or when they will be published. Plans such as these would bring comfort to, or at least engagement on the part of, various businesses regarding what sort of contingency planning and Government supports are in place. Will the Minister indicate when we and, more importantly, the agrifood sector, farmers and the tourism and transport industries will see these detailed sector-by-sector plans, including the contingency plans?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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It is important to quote the Secretary of State, Mr. Brokenshire, fully. While he did say what the Deputy has outlined, he also said " ... we have made equally clear we are determined to find bespoke solutions to Northern Ireland's unique circumstances, not least as the only part of the UK to share a land border with an EU member state." There is a recognition from James Brokenshire that these are complex issues that need bespoke, unique and flexible solutions. We can all agree that we are not where we need to be in the context of those solutions.

The Deputy referred to contingency planning. Work in this regard is ongoing. The Deputy is asking for published, specific plans for certain outcomes. There are so many outcomes that are possible from Brexit right now that we could put all our resources into trying to develop responses to each of them. A great deal of detailed contingency planning needs to happen but our main focus has to be on getting the right outcome in the negotiations. This is where our focus lies. As the Deputy rightly stated, we must see to it that if the worst-case scenario were to happen, Ireland needs to ensure that it is not fundamentally caught out and that we have a plan which will kick in. We will have this, but it is not something we want to see happen. As I have said many times, we will contingency plan for the worst-case scenario but we will continue to negotiate to try to get the best possible outcome.