Dáil debates

Tuesday, 7 November 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions

Brexit Documents

4:35 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach when his Department received the recent Revenue Commissioners report on Brexit; the actions being taken as a result; and his views on the observations made in the report regarding implications for a border on the island of Ireland. [43827/17]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach if the recent Brexit and the consequences for Irish Customs report by the Revenue Commissioners was received by his Department; when it was received; and if he will report on its contents. [44868/17]

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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9. To ask the Taoiseach if his Department received the recent Revenue Commissioners report on Brexit; if so, when; the actions being taken as a result; and his views on the report regarding implications for a border. [46484/17]

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 to 9, inclusive, together.

The report referred to is a draft internal working paper and preliminary analysis prepared by the Revenue Commissioners in September 2016 of potential administrative implications on customs processes following the UK vote in June 2016 to leave the European Union. As I stated in the House on 11 October, I read the Revenue Commissioners desktop analysis report on the customs implications of a hard Brexit in the previous few days. The primary purpose of the working document was to identify matters arising from the view of both customs and trade. The document concluded many of these matters would require more detailed study in their own right and the final position would not become clear in advance of the outcome of Brexit negotiations.

Matters have moved on significantly since September 2016, and in particular since Article 50 was triggered in March 2017. The draft document prepared by the Revenue Commissioners was not finalised and was overtaken by consequent major developments and policy statements.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is wonderful language with terms like "draft" report, indicating it was not completed. We have read such replies before. To cut to the chase, there has been a consistent pattern of Government in refusing to make plans available or publish reports. It is withholding basic information. The Taoiseach reversed position when he said the Government is preparing for different Brexit scenarios. When I raised this first, he rounded on me, saying he would not tolerate any North-South thing, which is fair enough and nobody agrees with it. Nonetheless, following a couple of days in Derry, the Taoiseach said the Government was examining all sorts of scenarios. He might indicate what specific scenarios are being planned for or considered, and what did he mean by the statement in Derry?

Last week, the British Government caved in to much pressure by agreeing to publish detailed sectoral studies of the impact of different Brexit scenarios for Britain, as it had previously tried to withhold them, claiming negotiations would be undermined if people the underlying facts behind different sectoral analyses. It has been stated that sectoral impact studies have been prepared under the auspices of the Department of Business, Enterprise and Innovation. Will the Taoiseach agree to follow the British example and publish these impact studies. InterTradeIreland this week stated three quarters of companies have not yet put in place Brexit contingency plans. This is a more urgent issue than one might think.

One of the reasons I called for the Revenue study to be published was to inform public debate and let people know the agenda. There should be no secret around the potential difficulties that Brexit will create in a post-Brexit scenario. There is much language amounting to the political elite covering tracks and hoping things work out better than they might. We all know we are subject to the division within the British cabinet, along with the civil war within the Tory Party and the inability of a coherent position to emanate from Britain.

British business people and traders and Irish SMEs and traders need to understand the full implications of Brexit. People are assuming that it will be sorted out. Some people in this country even believe there will be a second poll. It is as if the political systems in Britain and Ireland want to protect people from the harsh realities that Brexit may result in. No one likes to be the bringer of bad news, but there is a need to be up front with people and to explain what Brexit will mean in various scenarios, for the agrifood industry, the haulage industry, for the ports, maritime and fishing, etc. The more people understand the nuts and bolts of this and the gravity of it in their individual sectors, the better the response will be politically, not just here, but more crucially in the United Kingdom, where opinion is divided across all parties, within parties and in the general public. That whole debate has been abandoned in the United Kingdom.

Withholding reports such as the Revenue report, in my view, is a mistake, and there is no need to do it. Saying it was only a draft report and that events have overtaken it is merely putting a gloss on it after the Government was caught out. We should not have to wait for the media to produce that report for us. It should have been put before the Dáil in the interests of transparency. I am asking the Taoiseach to publish any other available sectoral studies that have been undertaken by various Government agencies and bodies.

4:45 pm

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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At the risk of annoying the Fianna Fáil leader, I agree with him on this issue. These reports should be brought before the Dáil and the Taoiseach should agree to publish all internal reports relating to Brexit and any option papers it has agreed. The leaked report of the Revenue Commissioners makes for disturbing reading, although it is quite practical. It makes the case that if there is going to be a frontier or border it will be disastrous in terms of economic and physical effects, which we all now understand.

The British Government says it wants no physical barriers on the Border. This is complete and absolute nonsense, unless it is prepared to maintain the North within the European Union. Of course, it will not do that if the Irish Government is not making that demand as well. The Taoiseach spoke with the British Prime Minister last week. Did he raise any of these issues? Did he get any clarity from the British Government on how it proposes to achieve a border with no barriers? Is the Taoiseach yet to ask the British Prime Minister to accept special status for the North within the European Union? One of the outcomes, unless we push very firmly on that position, is that the European Union will insist that this State puts up border posts. I am aware that Fianna Fáil has solved this problem with its suggestion of M50-type tolls as border posts.

The point of all of this is that we should not have to rely on leaked documents and what is in the media on one day or the other, so could the Taoiseach agree to publish all internal reports and make sure that the Oireachtas and the public have any available papers relating to Brexit? Today, according to the Financial Times, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Coveney, said that his preference is for a four or five-year transition period for Britain to exit the EU. Is that the Government position? Has that been discussed with our partners in the European Union? What is their opinion on extending the transition period?

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Everybody on this side of the House is anxious to co-operate with the Government and provide as much assistance as possible to achieve the best possible outcome for the island of Ireland. This is not a party political football.

The chairman of the Revenue Commissioners raised a number of points which are presumably being worked on. I want to call them to the Taoiseach's attention. One such point is the study on the implications and the assessment of the options under the new Union customs code. Another is the key issues of the Article 50 task force conducted through the communications channels that his own Department runs - perhaps via the strategic communications unit. A further point concerns the development of customs IT infrastructure to ensure that it is going to be possible to deal with transactions in the future. The final point is the deployment of additional staff to prepare for Brexit and the scaling up of resources as necessary. It is common knowledge that Revenue is overwhelmed at the moment in terms of the task it has to do. It is probably some 300 to 500 staff short, particularly in the context of Brexit.

I would appreciate if the Taoiseach could update us on the points laid out by the chairman of the Revenue Commissioners. In particular, on the key issue of the Article 50 task force, can the Taoiseach share with us who is on the task force, what it is doing and if there is an interim report from the task force? It is the responsibility of both the Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. We need communication on that issue. Revenue has a very clear idea on how to guard the national interest and the island interest, but the Taoiseach needs to share that with us.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I want to give Deputy Eamon Ryan an opportunity to speak because we will not be taking the next group until tomorrow.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I was going to ask a question on the European Council but there have been enough variations on that question already so I will not avail of the opportunity. I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The next group of questions will be taken tomorrow.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I absolutely agree with Deputy Martin that there is no need for secrecy around impact analyses. I have no difficulty with them being published. There may be good reasons they should be published but I do not believe those reasons involve secrecy. I accept the basic point that the Deputy makes, that it helps to inform the debate, not just here but also in the United Kingdom. There has to be a degree of secrecy around the negotiations, and any reasonable person here will understand that. Whether we are talking about the negotiations currently under way in Northern Ireland or those under way in Brussels, we cannot play them out here and show our hand to the people we are negotiating with. People will understand why that is unwise. The opportunity for confidential briefings on Brexit for party leaders is available from my Department, and I trust party leaders to treat those briefings in full confidence.

Many impact analyses have been published. I see one in the newspapers every other week, often from a Government body or a body associated with the Government, or indeed a non-governmental body. There is no shortage of impact analyses outlining the potential horrors of a Brexit that goes wrong. I am not sure we need any more of them, but I have no difficulty with them being published.

It is 18 months since the referendum on Brexit in the UK and it is worth reflecting on some of the things that have been done and have been achieved to date. It is very significant that the Government has managed to secure Irish issues as being among the top three issues in phase 1 of the talks, that those issues are part of the sufficient progress test and that there is an understanding that Ireland is unique when it comes to Brexit. We have secured a commitment from the UK and the EU that we will attempt to avoid a hard border and that there will be no physical infrastructure. We have a commitment from the UK and the European Union to protect the common travel area and the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement. We have widespread support for a transition phase now. I was asked how long that might be. Let us not forget that this was not even a part of the early discussions. Ours was the Government that first proposed that there might be and should be a transition phase; it was contained in the former Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny's, Mansion House speech. We have also managed to dispel any suggestions that we too might leave the European Union.

4 o’clock

In the first few weeks after the Brexit referendum we were seriously asked by many people if Ireland would leave too. We managed to dispel any notion that we would ever consider it.

4:55 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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A huge achievement.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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We have secured the Kenny text, that is, the text in the minutes of the guidelines setting out clearly that should there ever be a united Ireland the Six Counties can come into the European Union seamlessly. We have also reaffirmed the right of everybody born in Northern Ireland to Irish and European citizenship. Crucially, we have ensured we are not isolated. The worst position the country could be in is to be isolated and, somehow, piggy in the middle between the United Kingdom and the rest of the European Union. That would leave us very exposed at a certain point. We have ensured we have never been isolated and have been very much one of the 27. We are also forging new alliances and planning for the European Union without the United Kingdom. At the last European summit I attended the breakfast meeting of the Nordic and Baltic states, states with which we have a great deal in common. The Dutch Prime Minister, Mark Rutte, also attended. He will visit Dublin quite soon. This week the Minister for Finance, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, attended the Nordic-Baltic dinner in Brussels. We are already forming new alliances and building new friendships.

In terms of the general preparations for Brexit, we have balanced the books, which is very important. We must pay down the debt, balance the books and get into surplus to prepare for any downturn if there is to be one as a consequence of Brexit. I do not believe there will be, but we must prepare for it. We paid off the IMF loans early and are setting out an ambitious capital plan in the next four and ten years to prepare for Brexit. Part of it might involve, for example, improving road infrastructure and potentially ports, depending on what happens. Today the Cabinet approved the low cost loans scheme for the agrifood industry and SMEs, companies employing fewer than 500 people. The Tánaiste and Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation will tell Members more about it next week. There is a €5,000 grant for businesses to help them to prepare for Brexit.

The number of the Attorney General's staff in Brussels has increased from one to five and will continue to increase. That is important because after Brexit Ireland will be the only common law country in the European Union. We will have to do for ourselves much of the work that was done for us by the the United Kingdom. We have also announced that we are opening five new embassies and missions next year. When I spoke in the House about the global 2020 plan, my plan to double our footprint globally, I was told by Members opposite that it was just more spin. It is not. The five specific embassies and missions that will open next year will be in New Zealand, Mumbai, Vancouver, Bogota and Santiago de Chile. We have also increased staff and resources for Tourism Ireland, Bord Bia, IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland.

That is just a brief synopsis of the enormous work the Government has done and the enormous progress already made in our preparations for Brexit.