Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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23. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs the reason her department is not implementing the recommendation of the audit of An Garda Síochána use of section 12 to establish a 24 hour social work service. [31457/17]

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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My first question for the Minister is to ask the reasons her Department is not implementing the recommendation of the audit of An Garda Síochána use of section 12 to establish a 24 hour social work service.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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Along with the Deputy and other Deputies, I very much welcome the report by Dr. Geoffrey Shannon which is an audit of the use of section 12 by An Garda Síochána. He has done a great service to children. He has also done monumental work in terms of what we as policy makers need to do in order to support children in crisis. His report is a comprehensive, thorough analysis of the strengths and deficiencies in our shared approach to child protection. As Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, I will apply this research to our child protection system.

Since the publication of the report I have met Dr. Shannon on two occasions and have had several other communications with him. He has also had intensive engagement with officials in my Department. He has been very generous with his time and his expertise. Together, we have identified an action plan to improve our emergency child protection services.

Specifically, Deputy Rabbitte has asked me about establishing a 24 hour social work service. Following the discussions with Dr. Shannon, the initial steps have been agreed as to how best to implement the recommendation. I have already requested that Tusla examine, as a matter of priority, the level of demand for such a service and identify the most appropriate and child-friendly manner in which supports can be provided when a child needs emergency out-of-hours care. We can probably all agree that the needs of younger children and older adolescents will be different. We need to have a system that recognises this and responds to these differing needs and circumstances.

Last week, I attended a public consultation in the Seanad on mental health services for children. I listened to the testimony of mothers who described the chronic challenges faced by them when they need an urgent out-of-hours emergency service. In my opinion, we need an out-of-hours emergency service which responds to the needs of all children. We need the right response, from the right services at the right time. This should be flexible enough to meet the needs of the individual child and the particular situation. It could involve An Garda Síochána, Tusla social workers, HSE psychiatric professionals and HSE medical teams.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I suppose I am a little at sea in one of the questions I am asking the Minister. What piece of information is missing from Dr. Geoffrey Shannon's report? The information is not there. He has written this in the here and now, for example, he wrote in 2014, 2015 and was compiling it up to 2016.

Tusla put in place an out-of-hours service which the report acknowledges is in place. However, while Dr. Shannon was compiling the end of the report, he found serious gaps, including those associated with the 91 cases referenced. What part of the report that is missing suggests we do not need a 24-hour service? What gives a child in rural Ireland, or any part of Ireland, a lesser right to access to a social service worker than a child from any of the other four counties? No child should be denied that right. The Minister is right: Dr. Geoffrey Shannon has produced a comprehensive report. It is probably one of the leading worldwide reports carried out, yet we are saying we do not have enough information.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I indicated in response to the Deputy's question my view on the recommendation of Dr. Shannon which I have agreed to include in my implementation plan. I have asked Tusla to take the first steps. This has been agreed with Dr. Shannon on the most appropriate way to move forward.

The Deputy is aware that we have an out-of-hours service. The Garda has access to a telephone line and live social workers when section 12 is invoked for children in counties Dublin, Kildare, Wicklow and Cork.

It has been agreed with Dr. Shannon that the most appropriate way to begin the process of responding to his recommendation is to ask Tusla to set out the level of demand by county and age. Most of the demand seems to be in these areas. We need to know whether enough staff are in place and, if not, whether Tusla could add additional social care staff. That is one of the questions. In areas outside counties Dublin, Wicklow, Kildare and Cork seven social workers are available to be called. They receive calls from the national telephone service. It is true that they only go out in situations involving parental death, car crashes, mass tragedy and other special circumstances. In that sense, the service is restricted, but the threshold is being examined in the light of what I have requested Tusla to do. The key is seeing where the demand is and what types of situation and children are involved in order for us to respond appropriately.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge that considerable work has been done. The implementation plan agreed with Tusla last week was welcome. I am keen to see the timelines and the reviews to be completed. When will we know the county by county details in respect of the data contained on page 50 of Dr. Geoffrey Shannon's report? Do we have a timeline in that regard?

Reference was made to 23 social care workers possibly being required to work in strategic divisions within An Garda Síochána. Do we have a timeline in that regard?

Time is of the essence. If we do not put timelines in place, we will encounter problems. Dr. Shannon has invited himself back to the Oireachtas committee next year to indicate how we are making progress. Has the Department of Children and Youth Affairs put timelines in place for delivery in the next 12 months? We need measurable targets.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I have asked those responsible to begin the work and report back to me as soon as possible on the different sections of the implementation plan relating to Tusla's response to Dr. Shannon's report. For example, in respect of the out-of-hours service, on which the Deputy's question focuses, my officials will be meeting representatives of Tusla towards the end of this week to begin the process of looking at page 50, as well as additional issues that, no doubt, are being raised about the table Dr. Shannon has produced. As I said, he has agreed that it is important to do a little more detailed work in that regard to respond appropriately or make recommendations to me to develop an out-of-hours service.

I tried to indicate in my initial response to the Deputy's question my vision. We need an out-of-hours service that is right for the children at the right time and at the right place. I intend to ensure it will be put in place over a period in the light of the recommendations brought forward.