Dáil debates

Wednesday, 31 May 2017

Topical Issue Debate

Employment Rights

3:55 pm

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Leo Varadkar, for making himself available. He always responds to his own Topical Issues. I am grateful for his presence, bearing in mind the week that is in it.

The issue I am raising pertains to seasonal part-time workers who play an essential and critical role in the tourism, farming and fishing sectors. During a debate on the Social Welfare Bill 2016 last November we agreed to withdraw a Report Stage amendment on this issue following the giving of a commitment by the Minister to conduct a review within three months. I am disappointed that almost six months later, there is still no sign of the report in question. The report was to have been made available in March or April this year, but we are now at the end of May and it is still not available.

The anomalies in the current social welfare rules and regulations make it virtually impossible for seasonal part-time workers to access social welfare entitlements when the season ends. The requirement for such workers to make a further 13 weeks of contributions within the final 78 days of their existing claim period of 234 days is particularly problematic. It is just not possible. Depending on the day on which existing claims expire, it does not allow for the seasonality of the sectors to which I have referred. Some workers' claims are expiring when seasonal work is no longer available. The current system, therefore, works against part-time and seasonal workers. The requirement to have paid 117 contributions in a three-year period equates to 39 contributions per annum. It is almost impossible to find 39 weeks of seasonal work. The current position can only be described as a poverty trap. The income threshold of €12.70 a day, or €63.50 a week, is unfair. If a seasonal worker earns such an amount from his or her secondary income source, he or she will not be eligible to receive unemployment benefit. It defies logic that a low annual subsidiary income of €3,302 is sufficient to deny someone the right to obtain a social welfare payment.

I want to put in context the income levels about which we are talking. A seasonal part-time worker typically earns between €5,500 and €8,500 during his or her working season. Many of these workers who are on very low incomes have no other skills other than those needed for the seasonal work in which they engage. I remind the House that they play an important role in the tourism, fishing and farming sectors. These zero-hour contract workers have very little job security. Many of them have worked as seasonal part-time workers every year for many years. I know people in my constituency who have engaged in seasonal work for over 20 years but who in the past two years have been unable to access social welfare contributions. It makes no sense. I know that Deputy Leo Varadkar is a caring Minister who wants to do something about this. He said earlier today that he did not want to sign off on reports until he knew where he would be next week. I suggest that because he has a handle on this issue, he sign off on the report and deal with it as quickly as possible.

4:05 pm

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I want to correct something I said earlier. I mentioned that I would be at the joint committee tomorrow but I will not be. That particular matter is being handled by officials but I will be in the House.

I wish to advise the Deputy that my Department has not made any changes recently to the arrangements that apply to seasonal workers and part-time workers who need to access social welfare payments once their employment ceases. My Department administers over 70 different schemes and services and has committed to ensuring that claims are processed as expeditiously as possible. One of the main priorities for the Department is to build on achievements already made to integrate services into the Intreo service delivery model and streamline the applications process for all schemes. If the Deputy has any particular concerns, perhaps he would let me have the details and I will follow up on them.

In general, seasonal and part-time workers should apply for jobseeker’s benefit or allowance as soon as they become unemployed. In order to qualify for jobseeker’s benefit or jobseeker’s allowance a person must satisfy certain conditions. To qualify for jobseeker’s benefit the first condition is that the person must have at least 104 reckonable contributions, under classes A, H or P paid since they entered insurable employment. Class S self-employed contributions are not reckonable for jobseeker’s benefit. To satisfy the second condition, a person must have at least 39 reckonable contributions paid or credited in the governing contribution year, GCY. The GCY is the second last complete contribution year running from 1 January to 31 December before the year in which the claim is made. For any person making a claim in 2017, the GCY would be 2015. Of these, 13 contributions must be paid or the person must have at least 26 reckonable contributions paid in both the GCY and the year immediately preceding it - for 2017, this would be 2015 and 2014. If a person does not have 13 paid contributions in the relevant GCY, they must have 13 contributions paid in either of the two tax years before the relevant GCY or the last complete tax year or the current tax year - for 2017, this would be 2016 and 2017. Initially, when a person makes an application for jobseeker’s benefit, three waiting days apply and payment is made from the fourth day of the claim. If, however, a person makes a repeat claim for jobseeker’s benefit within 26 weeks of their previous claim, the repeat claim links to the earlier claim and no waiting days apply. Admittedly, that is quite hard to follow.

Jobseeker’s assistance is a means tested payment and earnings are taken into account in determining means. A person must satisfy certain conditions, including being available for and genuinely seeking work. Casual part-time workers may qualify for jobseeker’s allowance subject to satisfying the means test and other qualifying conditions. A disregard of €20 a day, up to a maximum of €60, applies up to a maximum of three days and the balance is assessed at 60%.

In determining the assessable income from insurable employment, the following deductions are allowed: superannuation, additional voluntary contributions, AVCs, PRSI, the pension levy and trade union subscriptions. The person’s net average assessable weekly earnings are assessed by reference to the previous 13 weeks or another period if this is more representative of the person's normal working pattern. Jobseeker’s allowance is not payable where the average means are equal to or in excess of the relevant family rate of payment.

School educational sector workers, who are employed on a temporary basis and who have previously been in contact with the Department, are issued with a repeat jobseeker's application form and holiday form in advance of the school holiday periods. This advance process facilitates an efficient service to these customers and allows for speedy processing of their claim when the period of unemployment actually arises. However, it is important to note that educational sector workers are still required to sign on for each period of unemployment.

The governing legislation states that a day shall not be treated as a day of unemployment, it shall be treated as a day of employment unless it is considered subsidiary employment. To be considered subsidiary employment, the work being undertaken should be in addition to the usual full-time employment, and the remuneration received by the jobseeker must not exceed €12.70 a day or the jobseeker must have a minimum of 117 PRSI contributions paid immediately preceding the date of the claim or in respect of the last three complete contribution years.

Photo of Jim DalyJim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Thank you, Minister.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I am almost finished. Where a person has been working in his or her usual employment and also working in a second employment, the second employment could only be considered subsidiary if the above conditions are satisfied.

I gave a commitment on Report Stage of the Social Welfare Bill 2016 in the Dáil that I would ask my officials to examine the issue of jobseeker's benefit and the treatment of part-time and seasonal workers, including those categorised as having subsidiary employment. That report is currently being undertaken with the intention of presenting it to the Joint Committee on Social Protection shortly. The timeframe is ambitious but I am committed to producing the report as quickly as possible so that it can inform any decisions we might make for budget 2018.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I presume the Minister will arrange for a copy of his reply to be circulated. Apart from the last 15 seconds of the Minister's reply, and I timed it, everything he said prior to that was not relevant to the Topical Issue I raised. He has told me exactly what I know but I asked about the report. I am pleased the report will be available soon and I hope it will provide some solace to all these people. I note from an internal review in the Department that this is happening and that it will go to the deputy secretary and the Minister soon. I hope it will deal with the real issue.

The Minister spoke of the changes that were made recently, of the 70 schemes and services run by his Department and that it tries to process claims as quickly as possible. That is not relevant to the question I asked. The question I asked was about the commitment made by the Minister on 22 November to come back to this issue. We withdrew an amendment to the legislation, in good faith, which we could have pushed but the Minister said at the time if it were to be included in the Act, the process would go on for much longer. It could not have gone on much longer. We did that in good faith.

The Minister is doing a disservice and the review will do a disservice unless it improves the lot of these seasonal and part-time workers. This has been going on since 22 November. I know the Minister met a lobby group in Donegal last week. In fact, it was not the Minister but his colleague, Deputy McHugh who told them that Pat The Cope Gallagher's pronouncements on this was not helping the case. I am not casting any aspirations on the Minister because I know that is not his form but that was suggested. Now we are being told that as a result of that meeting a review has commenced. The waters are muddied and there is a great deal of being economical with the truth. I would like the Minister to clarify in his final response that the review did not start as result of his meeting Donegal and that it had started post 22 November. His colleague should stop reinventing and playing with other people's toys.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I acknowledge that was a rather convoluted reply setting out the rules as they are, which was not quite what the Deputy asked me about, He asked about the review. I do not know when the review started but it has been under way for some time. It would have been some time after the Social Welfare Bill passed through the Dáil. It probably started some time earlier this year.

I met a delegation of people involved in the fishing industry in Gweedore a few weeks ago at the request of the Minister of State, Deputy McHugh. I did not hear him making any remarks of that nature in my presence so-----

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister was not present.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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-----I do not know whether that was the case or not. We are doing the work on the review. The key issue is to have it done well before the next budget. We want to have it done before the summer so that we can see what the options are and what they will cost with a view to making some changes in the budget to be then implemented in the Social Welfare Bill before the end of the year, but we must understand the consequences involved with respect to any changes we make. Something might make sense for seasonal workers in the fishing industry and maybe other industries but, if we get it wrong, it might open the door to huge numbers of part-time and seasonal workers becoming eligible for jobseeker's payments in a way that would not be affordable. The work that is being done now is to examine what we could do to improve matters and to set out the options and the costs so that we might consider them the context of the budget in October and the Social Welfare Bill thereafter.

As the Deputy knows from the information he already has, I have not seen the review yet but it is being worked on in the Department. I look forward to making it available as soon as possible.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister is synonymous now not with millions but billions of euro. This will not cost many millions of euro.

Photo of Jim DalyJim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy knows that there cannot be an exchange to and fro.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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In which case we will do it but if is costs hundreds of millions of euro, it might be a problem.