Dáil debates

Thursday, 18 May 2017

Proposed Sale of AIB Shares: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]

 

The following motion was moved by Deputy Brendan Howlin on Tuesday, 9 May 2017:

Debate resumed on amendment No. 5:

1:50 pm

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must now deal with a postponed division relating to amendment No. 5 to the motion regarding the proposed sale of AIB shares. On Tuesday, 9 May 2017, on the question, "That the amendment to the motion be agreed to," a division was claimed. In accordance with Standing Order 70(2), that division must be taken now.

Amendment put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 47; Níl, 90; Staon, 1.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Regina Doherty and Tony McLoughlin; Níl, Deputies Brendan Ryan and Jan O'Sullivan.

Maria Bailey, Seán Barrett, Pat Breen, Colm Brophy, Richard Bruton, Peter Burke, Catherine Byrne, Joe Carey, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, Simon Coveney, Michael Creed, Michael D'Arcy, Jim Daly, John Deasy, Pat Deering, Regina Doherty, Paschal Donohoe, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Peter Fitzpatrick, Charles Flanagan, Brendan Griffin, John Halligan, Simon Harris, Martin Heydon, Heather Humphreys, Seán Kyne, Michael Lowry, Helen McEntee, Finian McGrath, Joe McHugh, Tony McLoughlin, Josepha Madigan, Kevin Moran, Eoghan Murphy, Hildegarde Naughton, Tom Neville, Michael Noonan, Kate O'Connell, Fergus O'Dowd, John Paul Phelan, Noel Rock, Shane Ross, David Stanton, Leo Varadkar.

Níl

Gerry Adams, Bobby Aylward, Mick Barry, Richard Boyd Barrett, John Brady, John Brassil, Declan Breathnach, James Browne, Pat Buckley, Joan Burton, Mary Butler, Thomas Byrne, Jackie Cahill, Dara Calleary, Pat Casey, Shane Cassells, Jack Chambers, Lisa Chambers, Joan Collins, Michael Collins, Niall Collins, Ruth Coppinger, Barry Cowen, Seán Crowe, David Cullinane, John Curran, Clare Daly, Pearse Doherty, Stephen Donnelly, Timmy Dooley, Dessie Ellis, Martin Ferris, Seán Fleming, Kathleen Funchion, Pat Gallagher, Seán Haughey, Danny Healy-Rae, Séamus Healy, Brendan Howlin, Billy Kelleher, Alan Kelly, Gino Kenny, Martin Kenny, John Lahart, James Lawless, Marc MacSharry, Charlie McConalogue, Mary Lou McDonald, Mattie McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, Catherine Martin, Micheál Martin, Denise Mitchell, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Imelda Munster, Margaret Murphy O'Mahony, Catherine Murphy, Eugene Murphy, Carol Nolan, Eoin Ó Broin, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Éamon Ó Cuív, Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Darragh O'Brien, Jonathan O'Brien, Jim O'Callaghan, Willie O'Dea, Fiona O'Loughlin, Louise O'Reilly, Frank O'Rourke, Jan O'Sullivan, Maureen O'Sullivan, Willie Penrose, Thomas Pringle, Maurice Quinlivan, Anne Rabbitte, Brendan Ryan, Eamon Scanlon, Seán Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Brendan Smith, Bríd Smith, Niamh Smyth, Brian Stanley, Peadar Tóibín, Robert Troy, Mick Wallace.

Staon

Michael Harty.

Amendment declared lost.

2:00 pm

Photo of Michael McGrathMichael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I move amendment No. 4:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:"is confident that capital investment can provide both social benefits as well as economic growth, rather than presenting a false choice in relation to such investment;

together with the International Monetary Fund, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and the Irish Business and Employers Confederation believes that, in order to tackle infrastructural bottlenecks built up as a result of under-investment in recent years, deal with the rapid growth within the domestic economy, deal with a growing and ageing population, as well as tackle the particular challenges posed by Brexit, greater capital investment is required than envisaged in the current capital plan;

notes that:
- while nominal national debt levels have increased very significantly in the last decade, the Irish national debt-to-gross domestic product, GDP, ratio continues to fall at a rapid pace, due to economic growth and continued achievement of budgetary targets, the costs of servicing the national debt have consistently been declining;

- the Irish Strategic Investment Fund has a discretionary portfolio of €8.1 billion and a directed portfolio valued at €12.6 billion, consisting of State shareholdings in Allied Irish Banks, AIB, and Bank of Ireland that were paid out of the National Pensions Reserve Fund; and

- the European Union Stability and Growth Pact and the European Union and domestic fiscal rules are essential for ensuring fiscal responsibility and stability across the eurozone, including Ireland, and that the particular rules surrounding capital investment should be reviewed; and
calls on the Government:
- to carry out an independent assessment of the appropriateness of the 10% rule which limits the role of public private partnership in capital investment in the Irish economy at this time; and

- in the light of the exceptional circumstances that apply, to seek the support of the European Commission to use some or all of the proceeds from the sale of a stake in AIB for capital investment purposes.

Amendment put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 47; Níl, 90; Staon, 1.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Michael Moynihan and John Lahart; Níl, Deputies Brendan Ryan and Jan O'Sullivan.

Bobby Aylward, John Brassil, Declan Breathnach, James Browne, Mary Butler, Thomas Byrne, Jackie Cahill, Dara Calleary, Pat Casey, Shane Cassells, Jack Chambers, Lisa Chambers, Michael Collins, Niall Collins, Barry Cowen, John Curran, Stephen Donnelly, Timmy Dooley, Seán Fleming, Seán Haughey, Danny Healy-Rae, Billy Kelleher, John Lahart, James Lawless, Michael Lowry, Marc MacSharry, Charlie McConalogue, Mattie McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, Catherine Martin, Micheál Martin, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Margaret Murphy O'Mahony, Eugene Murphy, Eugene Murphy, Darragh O'Brien, Jim O'Callaghan, Willie O'Dea, Fiona O'Loughlin, Frank O'Rourke, Anne Rabbitte, Eamon Scanlon, Brendan Smith, Niamh Smyth, Robert Troy.

Níl

Gerry Adams, Maria Bailey, Seán Barrett, Mick Barry, Richard Boyd Barrett, John Brady, Pat Breen, Colm Brophy, Tommy Broughan, Richard Bruton, Pat Buckley, Peter Burke, Joan Burton, Catherine Byrne, Joe Carey, Joan Collins, Ruth Coppinger, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, Simon Coveney, Michael Creed, Seán Crowe, David Cullinane, Michael D'Arcy, Clare Daly, Jim Daly, John Deasy, Pat Deering, Pearse Doherty, Regina Doherty, Paschal Donohoe, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Dessie Ellis, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Martin Ferris, Peter Fitzpatrick, Charles Flanagan, Kathleen Funchion, Brendan Griffin, John Halligan, Simon Harris, Séamus Healy, Martin Heydon, Brendan Howlin, Heather Humphreys, Alan Kelly, Gino Kenny, Martin Kenny, Seán Kyne, Mary Lou McDonald, Helen McEntee, Finian McGrath, Joe McHugh, Tony McLoughlin, Josepha Madigan, Denise Mitchell, Kevin Moran, Imelda Munster, Catherine Murphy, Eoghan Murphy, Hildegarde Naughton, Tom Neville, Carol Nolan, Michael Noonan, Eoin Ó Broin, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Jonathan O'Brien, Kate O'Connell, Fergus O'Dowd, Louise O'Reilly, Jan O'Sullivan, Maureen O'Sullivan, Willie Penrose, John Paul Phelan, Thomas Pringle, Maurice Quinlivan, Noel Rock, Shane Ross, Brendan Ryan, Seán Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Bríd Smith, Brian Stanley, David Stanton, Peadar Tóibín, Leo Varadkar, Mick Wallace.

Staon

Michael Harty.

Amendment declared lost.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I move amendment No. 2:

To delete all words after "fall at a rapid pace. due to economic growth" and substitute the following:

"and adjustments unrelated to actual economic factors:

welcomes the emerging consensus that the fiscal rules are flawed and that, as pointed out by some during the referendum on the issue, they now represent a very real impediment to the investment in our economy and society that is required:

notes that:- the bail out of Allied Irish Banks (AIB) had consequences far beyond the upfront cost and that these consequences can be seen in the number of young people who have emigrated and the crises in our health and housing sectors for example:

- and no scrutiny or cost benefit analysis of the decision by Government to sell AIB or part of AIB has taken place in the Oireachtas to date;believes that no credible economic case has been made for the privatisation of AIB;

further notes the evidence given at the Inquiry into the Banking Crisis of former AIB director and former chief executive of the National Treasury Management Agency, Michael Somers, that any part sale of AIB would have to be at a discount;

calls on the Government to:- abandon the sale of AIB, as no case has been presented that the sale is in the best interests of the Irish people;

- ensure that any future decision to sell any shares in AIB is subject to Oireachtas approval;

- work with progressive governments in the European Union (EU) to radically amend the fiscal rules, so that a greater degree o!’ economic sovereignty is returned to Member States and the rules m’etlect the value of investment in the economy;

- in the context of Brexit, secure greater flexibility for Ireland to spend on infrastructure through national and EU/European Investment Bank (ElB) funding; and

- prioritise. within the fiscal space. capital investment and investment in public services rather than implement a tax cutting agenda that benefits the wealthier; andcalls on the Committee on Finance. Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach to consider the long term options for the future of AIB and the State’s shareholdings in other banks."

Amendment put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 36; Níl, 97; Staon, 6.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Martin Kenny; Níl, Deputies Brendan Ryan and Jan O'Sullivan.

Gerry Adams, John Brady, Tommy Broughan, Pat Buckley, Joan Collins, Michael Collins, Seán Crowe, David Cullinane, Clare Daly, Pearse Doherty, Dessie Ellis, Martin Ferris, Kathleen Funchion, Danny Healy-Rae, Séamus Healy, Martin Kenny, Mary Lou McDonald, Mattie McGrath, Catherine Martin, Denise Mitchell, Imelda Munster, Catherine Murphy, Carol Nolan, Eoin Ó Broin, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Jonathan O'Brien, Louise O'Reilly, Maureen O'Sullivan, Thomas Pringle, Maurice Quinlivan, Róisín Shortall, Brian Stanley, Peadar Tóibín, Mick Wallace.

Níl

Bobby Aylward, Maria Bailey, Seán Barrett, John Brassil, Declan Breathnach, Pat Breen, Colm Brophy, James Browne, Richard Bruton, Joan Burton, Mary Butler, Catherine Byrne, Thomas Byrne, Jackie Cahill, Dara Calleary, Joe Carey, Pat Casey, Shane Cassells, Jack Chambers, Lisa Chambers, Niall Collins, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, Simon Coveney, Barry Cowen, Michael Creed, John Curran, Michael D'Arcy, Jim Daly, John Deasy, Pat Deering, Regina Doherty, Stephen Donnelly, Paschal Donohoe, Timmy Dooley, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Peter Fitzpatrick, Charles Flanagan, Seán Fleming, Pat Gallagher, Brendan Griffin, John Halligan, Simon Harris, Seán Haughey, Martin Heydon, Brendan Howlin, Heather Humphreys, Billy Kelleher, Alan Kelly, Seán Kyne, John Lahart, James Lawless, Michael Lowry, Marc MacSharry, Charlie McConalogue, Helen McEntee, Finian McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, Joe McHugh, Tony McLoughlin, Josepha Madigan, Micheál Martin, Kevin Moran, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Margaret Murphy O'Mahony, Eoghan Murphy, Eugene Murphy, Hildegarde Naughton, Tom Neville, Michael Noonan, Éamon Ó Cuív, Darragh O'Brien, Jim O'Callaghan, Kate O'Connell, Willie O'Dea, Fergus O'Dowd, Fiona O'Loughlin, Frank O'Rourke, Jan O'Sullivan, Willie Penrose, John Paul Phelan, Anne Rabbitte, Michael Ring, Noel Rock, Shane Ross, Brendan Ryan, Eamon Scanlon, Seán Sherlock, Brendan Smith, Niamh Smyth, David Stanton, Robert Troy, Leo Varadkar.

Staon

Mick Barry, Richard Boyd Barrett, Ruth Coppinger, Michael Harty, Gino Kenny, Bríd Smith.

Amendment declared lost.

2:10 pm

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I move amendment No. 3:

To delete all words after “Dáil Éireann” and substitute the following:

“believes that, in order to tackle infrastructural bottlenecks and make up for historical underinvestment, much greater investment in public services is required, including more capital investment than the €2.65 billion envisaged in the Capital Plan;

notes that the Irish national debt-to-Gross Domestic Product (GDP) ratio continues to fall at a rapid pace and that the costs of servicing the national debt have consistently been declining;

is concerned that the Government’s debt-to-GDP target of 45 per cent, significantly below the Stability and Growth Pact target of 60 per cent, and its commitment to establishing a €1 billion per year rainy-day fund from 2019 are unnecessary obstacles to tackling our significant public investment deficit;

further notes that the State’s long established rainy-day fund, the Irish Strategic Investment Fund, has a discretionary portfolio of €8.1 billion and a directed portfolio valued at €12.6 billion, consisting of State shareholdings in Allied Irish Banks (AIB) and Bank of Ireland that were paid for out of the National Pension Reserve Fund;

asserts that the European Union (EU) Stability and Growth Pact and fiscal rules currently prevent appropriate levels of investment and should be amended in order to facilitate a much needed increase in capital spending;

in the circumstances, believes that the sale of shareholdings in AIB and Bank of Ireland should not proceed; and

calls on the Government to stop the sale of AIB shares and to negotiate with the EU authorities to change the fiscal rules, to permit enhanced spending on public services, including capital spending, rather than selling off State assets to fund this, or worse still, simply to pay down debt.”

Amendment put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 39; Níl, 96; Staon, 1.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Richard Boyd Barrett and Ruth Coppinger; Níl, Deputies Brendan Ryan and Jan O'Sullivan.

Gerry Adams, Mick Barry, Richard Boyd Barrett, John Brady, Tommy Broughan, Pat Buckley, Joan Collins, Ruth Coppinger, Seán Crowe, David Cullinane, Clare Daly, Pearse Doherty, Dessie Ellis, Martin Ferris, Kathleen Funchion, Danny Healy-Rae, Séamus Healy, Gino Kenny, Martin Kenny, Mary Lou McDonald, Catherine Martin, Denise Mitchell, Imelda Munster, Catherine Murphy, Carol Nolan, Eoin Ó Broin, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Jonathan O'Brien, Louise O'Reilly, Maureen O'Sullivan, Thomas Pringle, Maurice Quinlivan, Róisín Shortall, Bríd Smith, Brian Stanley, Peadar Tóibín, Mick Wallace.

Níl

Bobby Aylward, Maria Bailey, Seán Barrett, John Brassil, Declan Breathnach, Pat Breen, Colm Brophy, James Browne, Richard Bruton, Peter Burke, Joan Burton, Mary Butler, Catherine Byrne, Thomas Byrne, Jackie Cahill, Dara Calleary, Joe Carey, Pat Casey, Shane Cassells, Jack Chambers, Lisa Chambers, Michael Collins, Niall Collins, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, John Curran, Michael D'Arcy, Jim Daly, John Deasy, Pat Deering, Regina Doherty, Stephen Donnelly, Paschal Donohoe, Timmy Dooley, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Peter Fitzpatrick, Charles Flanagan, Seán Fleming, Brendan Griffin, John Halligan, Simon Harris, Seán Haughey, Martin Heydon, Brendan Howlin, Heather Humphreys, Billy Kelleher, Alan Kelly, Seán Kyne, John Lahart, James Lawless, Michael Lowry, Charlie McConalogue, Helen McEntee, Finian McGrath, Mattie McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, Joe McHugh, Tony McLoughlin, Marc MacSharry, Josepha Madigan, Micheál Martin, Kevin Moran, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Margaret Murphy O'Mahony, Eoghan Murphy, Eugene Murphy, Hildegarde Naughton, Tom Neville, Michael Noonan, Éamon Ó Cuív, Darragh O'Brien, Jim O'Callaghan, Kate O'Connell, Willie O'Dea, Fergus O'Dowd, Fiona O'Loughlin, Frank O'Rourke, Jan O'Sullivan, Willie Penrose, John Paul Phelan, Anne Rabbitte, Michael Ring, Noel Rock, Shane Ross, Brendan Ryan, Eamon Scanlon, Seán Sherlock, Brendan Smith, Niamh Smyth, David Stanton, Robert Troy, Leo Varadkar.

Staon

Michael Harty.

Amendment declared lost.

2:20 pm

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
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I move amendment No. 1:

To insert the following after “to the Exchequer simply to pay down debt”:“further calls on the Government to undertake not to proceed with any share sale unless it is established, by way of a Dáil vote, that such a sale has majority Dáil Éireann support.”

Amendment put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 48; Níl, 89; Staon, 1.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Catherine Murphy and Róisín Shortall; Níl, Deputies Regina Doherty and Tony McLoughlin.

Gerry Adams, Mick Barry, Richard Boyd Barrett, John Brady, Tommy Broughan, Pat Buckley, Joan Burton, Joan Collins, Michael Collins, Ruth Coppinger, Seán Crowe, David Cullinane, Clare Daly, Pearse Doherty, Dessie Ellis, Martin Ferris, Kathleen Funchion, Danny Healy-Rae, Séamus Healy, Brendan Howlin, Alan Kelly, Gino Kenny, Martin Kenny, Mary Lou McDonald, Mattie McGrath, Catherine Martin, Denise Mitchell, Imelda Munster, Catherine Murphy, Carol Nolan, Eoin Ó Broin, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Jonathan O'Brien, Louise O'Reilly, Jan O'Sullivan, Maureen O'Sullivan, Willie Penrose, Thomas Pringle, Maurice Quinlivan, Brendan Ryan, Seán Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Bríd Smith, Brian Stanley, Peadar Tóibín, Mick Wallace.

Níl

Bobby Aylward, Maria Bailey, Seán Barrett, John Brassil, Declan Breathnach, Pat Breen, Colm Brophy, James Browne, Richard Bruton, Peter Burke, Mary Butler, Catherine Byrne, Thomas Byrne, Jackie Cahill, Dara Calleary, Joe Carey, Pat Casey, Shane Cassells, Jack Chambers, Lisa Chambers, Niall Collins, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, Simon Coveney, Barry Cowen, John Curran, Michael D'Arcy, Jim Daly, John Deasy, Pat Deering, Regina Doherty, Stephen Donnelly, Paschal Donohoe, Timmy Dooley, Andrew Doyle, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Peter Fitzpatrick, Charles Flanagan, Seán Fleming, Brendan Griffin, John Halligan, Simon Harris, Seán Haughey, Martin Heydon, Heather Humphreys, Billy Kelleher, Seán Kyne, John Lahart, James Lawless, Michael Lowry, Marc MacSharry, Charlie McConalogue, Helen McEntee, Finian McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, Joe McHugh, Tony McLoughlin, Josepha Madigan, Micheál Martin, Kevin Moran, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Margaret Murphy O'Mahony, Eoghan Murphy, Eugene Murphy, Hildegarde Naughton, Tom Neville, Michael Noonan, Éamon Ó Cuív, Darragh O'Brien, Jim O'Callaghan, Kate O'Connell, Willie O'Dea, Fergus O'Dowd, Fiona O'Loughlin, Frank O'Rourke, John Paul Phelan, Anne Rabbitte, Michael Ring, Noel Rock, Shane Ross, Eamon Scanlon, Brendan Smith, Niamh Smyth, David Stanton, Robert Troy, Leo Varadkar.

Staon

Michael Harty.

Amendment declared lost.

Motion put and declared carried.