Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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35. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence his plans for the development of naval capabilities, including increasing the role of the Naval Service in fisheries protection and monitoring Irish waters after Brexit. [23587/17]

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I tabled this question to think big, look outward and look into the future as to what is the vision of the Minister of State for the development of the Naval Service. From my perspective, the north Atlantic is our largest area. Our sea area is ten times our land area. The north Atlantic is changing because of climate change and overfishing. We need to survey, monitor and manage the north Atlantic. We need huge marine conservation areas. To manage this and the scientific research we need to do in the north Atlantic the Naval Service should have a bigger role. I am interested to hear what are the plans of the Minister of State for the development of the Naval Service in this regard.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for his question. The Sea-Fisheries and Maritime Jurisdiction Act 2006 establishes the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority, SFPA, as the competent authority for securing efficient and effective enforcement of sea fisheries protection legislation and the sustainable exploitation of marine fish resources from the waters around Ireland. To this end, the SFPA has a service level agreement with the Department of Defence. This is intended to ensure efficient enforcement of sea-fisheries law at sea through the support provided by the Naval Service and the Air Corps. In accordance with this agreement, an annual control plan is agreed between the parties. This sets out the strategy for achieving sea-fisheries control targets each year. The Naval Service is also responsible for the operation of the fisheries monitoring centre, which is located at the naval base in Haulbowline and is operated by the Naval Service on a 24-7 basis.

The consequences of Brexit will depend on the manner in which, and under what circumstances, the United Kingdom leaves the European Union. It is therefore premature at this stage to anticipate in detail the implications of the UK referendum, including the impact on fishery protection requirements.

However, the Deputy may be assured the Department, the Naval Service and the Air Corps are working closely with the SFPA on Brexit. We will also liaise closely with the European Fisheries Control Agency and with other member states, as appropriate.

The 2015 White Paper on Defence sets out the investment priorities for the Defence Forces for the next decade. There has been significant investment in new Naval Service patrol vessels over recent years, with the commissioning of the LÉ Samuel Beckettin 2014, LÉ James Joyce in 2015 and the LÉ William Butler Yeatsin 2016. A contract for an additional sister ship was placed in June 2016 at a cost of €54.3 million, bringing investment in the new ships programme to over €250 million since 2010. This fourth ship is scheduled for delivery in mid-2018. The White Paper on Defence also provides for further Naval Service vessels and the replacement of the Air Corps' two CASA 235s maritime patrol aircraft.

These measures will ensure the Naval Service and the Air Corps are well positioned to meet any requirements that may emerge in the coming period, including in their fishery protection roles.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I thank the Minister of State for the response and I appreciate it. I do not know whether it is the Minister, Deputy Coveney, or which of the Minister of State's colleagues is responsible for managing the marine protection areas which we are looking to develop. I believe we are responsible for approximately 1 million sq. km of sea area, so let us take 200,000 sq. km, which is what we would need to do in my mind from a conservation approach in terms of protecting fisheries for the future, protecting smaller Irish inshore fleets rather than just all of the big international fleets scooping up all of our fish and, as I have said, assessing what is happening in the north Atlantic where there is extensive change. This is the type of vision or projection we should go towards. If we do, then there is a case for really expanding the role and purpose of the Naval Service in terms of policing. If we are to do this and tell the international community we are creating these large marine conservation areas then we have to be serious about not just policing it but also monitoring and assessing the scientific information. Obviously, we would have to work with the Marine Institute and the RV Celtic Explorer and other vessels.

With regard to this sort of vision of us really turning to the Atlantic and taking seriously our responsibility for its management, backing it up with investment in the Naval Service to ensure we are doing this in a really big proper way, has the Minister of State thought about conservation areas of this scale and this level of investment in a big vision of us monitoring and protecting our waters, researching what is happening in the Atlantic and providing the Naval Service with one of the roles, in conjunction with the Marine Institute particularly, to ensure it is achievable and that we are seen internationally as taking a lead in maritime protection and conservation?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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As I already stated, the fishery protection centre located at the naval base in the Haulbowline is operated by the Naval Service on a 24-7 basis. I absolutely totally agree with the Deputy. One of the issues I found when I came into the Department was that prior to the Irish Naval Service deploying to the Mediterranean and getting television, radio and media coverage, many people in Ireland did not even know we had a Naval Service or the important work it does in securing our marine. I am not sure of the massive acres of area covered that we have in the Irish Sea and the north Atlantic. The Deputy is dead right and I absolutely take his points. The Government made a commitment in 2012 to invest €250 million in the ships replacement programme. I have named the ships which have been recently commissioned. We need a Naval Service that is fit for purpose.

It is more important that we protect our fisheries stock and that we have the infrastructure to be able to carry out that work.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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Those vessels are very welcome, and the investment programme in 2012 was not a small investment given the economic situation at the time. However, I am looking for the Minister of State to join with his ministerial colleagues in setting a big ambition of very large-scale marine conservation. My understanding from talking to naval officers and others is that the current system is very hard to police. It is very hard to police certain fleets of other nations. The best case example might be New Zealand or other countries where they shut down large areas. The benefit of that is to fisheries. Another benefit is that the small inshore fleet might begin to have a viable future. Also, we could take some of the analysis that was done in Galway Bay, SmartBay, and do it as a major research project out in the Atlantic. The scale of ambition I am talking about is in terms of very big marine conservation areas that are rigorously policed and scientifically analysed. That is where the opportunity lies. I am not too sure if the four vessels we have procured, among them the LE William Butler Yeats, the LE Samuel Beckett, the LE James Joyce, are necessarily well commissioned for that sort of scientific work. It is a slightly different approach to boarding a Spanish trawler or whatever. We want to keep everything out in certain areas, make it a no-catch zone and have a Navy to serve that mission and to do the scientific research to back it up, which is the Navy we should be moving towards.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I would agree, but some of the Deputy's questions should be to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I am sorry. The Minister, Deputy Creed, yes.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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However, we work very closely with the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority and in 2016 alone, we had 1,249 boardings on Irish and foreign vessels by way of protecting our fish stocks in our area of responsibility. I take the Deputy's point. I understand where he is coming from and the sentiments he has expressed but a large part of his question on policy is for the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. We work very closely with the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority and I have to say that the new ships are of huge importance in terms of protecting our sea stocks.