Dáil debates

Wednesday, 17 May 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed) - Priority Questions

Defence Forces Retirements

2:55 pm

Photo of Noel GrealishNoel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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34. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the severance arrangements that have been introduced for enlisted personnel that have joined the Permanent Defence Force since 1994 and that retire or are discharged in circumstances as identified by the Commission on Public Service Pensions 2000; and the steps he will take to ensure an improvement in pay and conditions for members of the Defence Forces many of whom are currently living close to the poverty line. [23530/17]

Photo of Noel GrealishNoel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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I have put down this question on severance arrangements in view of the fact that members of the Defence Forces below the rank of sergeant have been allowed to serve a maximum of 21 years. Members at the rank of sergeant or higher may stay on until they are 50 years of age. As a result, more than 100 personnel a year are, in essence, forced out, many of whom are only in their early 40s. As finding other employment at that age can be very difficult, it is vital that we look after them properly.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy will appreciate, military life places unique physical and psychological demands on individuals and it is necessary that Defence Forces personnel are physically and mentally prepared to meet the challenges of all military operations and to undertake their duties on deployment overseas.  To this end, it is vital that the age and health profile of personnel be such as to ensure that operational capability and effectiveness are not compromised in any way.

The age and fitness profile of the Permanent Defence Force was an issue of serious concern during the 1990s and was the subject of severe criticism in a series of external reports, primarily those of the then Price Waterhouse consultants and the efficiency audit group. One of the key areas identified for urgent action by the audit group was the development of a manpower policy with an emphasis on lowering the age profile of Permanent Defence Force personnel. As a result, new terms and conditions were introduced for enlisted personnel enlisting after 1994. Post-January 1994, soldiers have different upper service limits or age limits depending on rank at discharge date and whether they are in a line or technician class. Their pensions and gratuities are payable immediately on discharge after relatively short periods of service and regardless of age. Their minimum qualifying service is 21 years for immediate pension and gratuity.

A claim was received from PDFORRA for a further review in relation to this matter and adjudicated on in December 2015. The adjudicator made specific findings on the matter. Officials in my Department are currently analysing the issues arising in relation to the implementation of these findings and will recommend to me any necessary legislative changes in respect of the terms of service of enlisted personnel. In terms of remuneration and pension provisions going forward, the new Public Service Pay Commission published its report on 9 May 2017 and the Government intends to initiate negotiations on a successor to the Lansdowne Road agreement ahead of budget 2018. Future remuneration of Defence Forces personnel will be dealt with within this process.

Photo of Noel GrealishNoel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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I note the recent advertisement of an additional assistant secretary general post in the Department of Defence. As the Defence Forces has a well-established HR structure, I presume the person appointed will be responsible for just 440 civilian staff in the Department. The new and additional post will attract a salary of between €128,000 and €149,000. How does that appointment look to a soldier who is struggling to make ends meet and sleeping in his car while his wife and children are many miles away? Low pay is the biggest factor affecting recruitment and retention in the Defence Forces. In the wide-ranging Defence Forces climate survey of 2015, pay emerged time and time again as the major bone of contention. Of those interviewed, 78% did not feel their pay was fair. The survey report concluded that the issue must be addressed because if it is not, the Defence Forces will continue to lose highly qualified and skilled members.

There is a crisis of morale in our Defence Forces, as was evident in last night's "Prime Time" programme. Large numbers of members are leaving each year.

There are big operational problems which have led to ridiculous situations, such as the fact a soldier in Renmore barracks in Galway cannot get a new pair of boots or other kit but must instead go to Cork. All this and poor levels of pay make for a poor working environment. The men and women who do such a wonderful job as soldiers, sailors or air crew at home and abroad while they are highly regarded for their professionalism must be treated better and properly rewarded for their loyalty.

3:05 pm

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I do not accept there is a crisis in morale in the Irish Defence Forces. Actually I would say the opposite. We have issues and challenges, I will accept that, but we do not have a crisis of morale. The reason I say this is when we advertised in February this year for enlisted personnel and for the cadetship of 2017 more than 9,000 people, young men and women from throughout Ireland, applied. This is for enlisted personnel, the bedrock of our organisation, or the cadets, which is a very important leadership organ of our organisation. The Deputy mentioned the recruitment of a new assistant secretary in the Department of Defence. This is something I looked for once I was appointed because of the ever-increasing workload of the senior people in the Department. As the Deputy will appreciate, we have 12 overseas missions and a huge number of other areas of responsibility in the Defence Forces organisation. This has to come back through the civil side in the Department of Defence. The Deputy specifically spoke about personnel having to travel. Of course there are challenges about personnel having to travel and I have spoken about this. I have spoken to the Chief of Staff about this and it is something he has been trying to-----

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister will have another opportunity.

Photo of Noel GrealishNoel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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I know everybody in the House has the height of respect and admiration for every member of the Defence Forces and I acknowledge the tremendous work they have done recently regarding the gorse fires in Galway and the Minister of State mentioned this last night. With regard to the pay and conditions, it is a scandal that in this day and age the men and women of our Defence Forces are so poorly paid that many of them must rely on social welfare top-ups such as family income supplement. It is now the only sector in the country which has no place at the table of the Workplace Relations Commission, and it is appalling their partners and families must take to protesting outside barracks, as they have done in recent months, to highlight the conditions some live under.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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As I stated previously, there are 57,000 recipients of family income supplement, not alone in the Defence Forces but throughout the public service and the private sector. I am not sure whether the Deputy has had an opportunity to read the report of the Public Service Pay Commission of May 2017. I ask him to read it. If he looks at it he will see how the Defence Forces are recognised and the challenges we face as an organisation are particularly highlighted. As I stated PDFORRA and RACO have been invited to the pay talks, which are part two and a follow on from the Public Service Pay Commission. They will be part of the negotiations and I hope they will be recognised. I have spoken to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform specifically on this issue as the Department made submissions, as did the representative organisations, to the Public Service Pay Commission. I take on board the views of the Deputy and I will consider them with regard to pay.