Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I believe we would all agree, if we can agree on anything after that debate, that during the term of the previous Government almost no post offices were closed. All the roaring and shouting that is going on now about the current Government is not impressive.

We would all agree that the third level sector is vital to our future and that third level colleges and universities are the platform on which we hope to produce graduates who will not only get good jobs and join different professions but who will start their own companies and provide for entrepreneurships.

I am very disappointed and angry at the way this Government has treated staffing issues in the third level sector since it came into office. The economy is in recovery mode but we know that during the period of the crash, little or no recruitment was made in the universities or colleges or generally in the public sector but that period is behind us. I am concerned about the terms and conditions under which younger and newer staff are currently being recruited.

We have had two reports by senior counsel, one by Peter Ward some time ago dealing with the issues and specifically focusing on issues around the entire education sector regarding staff getting quality contracts for the very important jobs they do. The other report, the Cush report, which was delivered to this Government some time ago, basically examined the conditions of teaching staff in colleges and universities and how their contracts and terms and conditions would be improved. Essentially, we find the quality of jobs has been both stripped out and stripped down in a number of the universities, including in the one closest to us in the Dáil, Trinity College, over a period of time, whereby increasingly more staff are now on short-term contracts or contracts which are subject to renewal at frequent intervals. The consequence of that for staff, who are vital for providing services to students, researchers and their institutions, is that their position of employment is extremely precarious, and if it were to continue that way, the staff will not be in a position to acquire a mortgage because they simply will not have contracts of a quality which would allow them to have financial security and commit to a long-term investment such as the purchase of a family home.

The Government has very significant resources at its disposal. What will it do to improve the terms and conditions of staff at third level and, in particular, to move away from short-term contracts and return to the principle of people getting permanent, contracted employment in which they can commit to the institution, give good service and also be able to enter into financial commitments? What about this model of short-termism which is also being employed for ancillary staff such as people who work in the libraries and in administration? It is a really insidious form of permanently reducing people's status and conditions.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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The report of the chair of the expert group on fixed term and part-time issues in lecturing in Ireland was published in May 2016 and contains a number of recommendations which will assist in addressing concerns raised about the level of part-time and fixed-term employment in lecturing in the third level sector. My Department issued directions to the sector on 4 July 2016 to implement the recommendations contained in the report in accordance with the terms of the Lansdowne Road agreement and my understanding is that the institutions are taking steps to do so.

The recommendations can be summarised as follows: a reduction in the qualifying period for a contract of indefinite duration from three years to two years; this reduction is to be reviewed when it has been in operation for five years; where additional hours are awarded to an existing holder of a contract of indefinite duration, the qualification period for a further such contract in respect of those additional hours should be one year; extra available lecturing hours should be offered to existing qualified part-time lecturers within the institution before being advertised externally; the employer and management representatives in the sector should have discussions with a view to implementing a feasible redeployment scheme; the adjudication system for dispute resolution in regard to the awarding of contracts of indefinite duration which already existed in institutes of technology should be extended to the universities; and, finally, employers now have the flexibility to recruit staff to non-Exchequer funded posts on a fixed term or permanent basis.

If a union representing lecturing grades believes that a university is not implementing the recommendations contained within the report of the chair of the expert group, that union can seek to have the matter addressed using the dispute resolution procedures provided for in the public service agreement.

The above-mentioned report is specific to concerns raised about part-time and fixed-term employment in lecturing and its recommendations are not applicable to non-lecturing grades. My Department is not aware of any issues regarding non-lecturing grades.

In line with the Universities Act 1997, third level institutions have autonomy in regard to human resource policies, subject to compliance with Government policy in respect of employment numbers and pay policy. Employers in the higher education sector are also required to operate in accordance with the provisions of national industrial relations agreements.

My Department is not aware of any instance of a third level institution not operating in accordance with good practice in respect of work and contract conditions or not operating in accordance with the provisions of national industrial relations agreements.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I note that the Minister said, "My Department is not aware of any issues regarding non-lecturing grades." I suggest the Minister agree to meet the representatives of the staff involved and their union representatives so they might advise him of what is happening as regards the quality of the work and contracts and the extent of permanency being made available, as I said, in particular in respect of staff involved in library services and administrative staff. It behoves Deputy Bruton as Minister for Education and Skills to familiarise himself with the present difficulties. We all understand that we have come out of a difficult economic period. That period is over. Deputy Bruton is taking a very retrograde step in saying he, as Minister, will wash his hands of the quality of contracts that vital ancillary staff will be able to obtain in third level institutions and colleges. It should be remembered that these ancillary staff, particularly those who work in libraries or provide other services to students, provide absolutely vital contact for students in their colleges and universities. We already know that class sizes have broadly increased, so ancillary services are enormously important to the quality of the educational experience a student receives. If this sector is so important in giving people opportunities to qualify as graduates-----

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----and bolstering research in the Irish university and third level sector, it seems to me a very retrograde step, as I said-----

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----to strip the quality of these jobs. The Minister claims-----

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy's time is up.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----he has no knowledge of this. The previous speaker referred to Pontius Pilate.

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. Her time is up.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Minister, unusually for him, is doing a Pontius Pilate on this-----

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----and he needs to address it.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I reiterate that I do not have responsibility for the HR policies of colleges. Those colleges have fought hard for the autonomy they have secured and Deputy Burton would have been one of those advocating the independence of the governance of colleges. My work is to ensure the framework of performance for these colleges is shaped in such a way that they deliver high quality, see more young people from disadvantaged backgrounds coming through their college doors and deliver degrees and research to high standards. I seek to win additional resources for them. Deputy Burton is right that we have come through a very difficult period, when there was no money for third level. This year, for the first time, I have secured €36.5 million to invest back into the third level sector to allow these colleges to grow, expand and provide additional service. Further, I am seeking to commit to additional resources in each of the next three years and I am working with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform to provide a funding model that has both Exchequer and employer contribution. However, I do not have a direct role in human resource issues. That is the way it has been set up under law and I operate within the law of the land.