David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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11. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform his views on whether the industrial unrest in the public sector has to do with pay justice for post-2011 entrants and that his decision to bring forward to the earlier date of 1 April 2017 the pay restoration due under the Lansdowne Road agreement will not, in fact, address the substantive issue; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3277/17]

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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I have asked, possibly 100 times at this stage, as have other Members of the House, including today, the Minister to commit to the principle of equal pay for equal work and restore public sector pay to a single-tier pay structure to deal with the very real sore that affects so many workers who came into the system post 2011. I again put the question to the Minister. It is not going away and needs to be resolved. The Minister needs to give the commitment to address a very real sore which has been at the heart of so many industrial disputes in the State in the public sector.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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It is not going away, but neither is the need for improved public services. I will read out to Deputy Cullinane the number of expenditure requests he has articulated in recent weeks. He has called for increased investment in University Hospital Waterford, increased investment for services for people with disabilities in his county, additional classrooms for a school in his constituency, the amalgamation of two grades in the Civil Service, increased investment in transport in his area, more people to be assigned to the Garda divisional unit, increased investment in Waterford Institute of Technology, funding for Institute of Technology, Carlow and funding for University Hospital Galway. Alongside these, he is asking for increased money and increased investment in public pay.

I have made clear to the Deputy a number of times, indeed well over 100 times, that I am committed to doing so, but it has to be done in an affordable manner. As I have just demonstrated, Deputy Cullinane makes calls in the House for increased expenditure in area after area without taking account of the fact that the overall cost of those calls is not one that the taxpayer is capable of meeting. For these reasons I have said that where possible I will deal with questions of how to improve public pay, but that it must be done in a way that is affordable in the long run and allows many of the other initiatives for which the Deputy has called to happen.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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I am pleased that the Minister is aware of my hard work on behalf of the people of Waterford and that his Department is watching every move that I make. He could be my director of elections in some respects, given how he cited the long list of issues-----

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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That would be some alliance.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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-----for which I have rightly campaigned. The people of Waterford deserve proper schools, hospitals and infrastructure, as every city and county does. Contrary to what the Minister said, though, we costed every proposal in our alternative budget to the cent.

When the Minister states that the issue of equal pay for equal work is not going away but that we need to focus on improved public services, what those who have entered the system since 2011 and are being treated differently and discriminated against hear is that the recovery of public services must be on their shoulders. That is not fair. I had this conversation with the Minister yesterday. Even now, his Department is unable to cost a return to a single-tier pay structure. If the Minister is not prepared to agree to the principle of equal pay for equal work, will he give me a commitment to the effect that, by next year's budget, his Department will be able to cost for my party a restoration to a single-tier pay structure?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is overstating the case a little to say that I am keeping a close eye on everything that he does. He works hard to represent the people of Waterford effectively, but they also deserve consistency from their public representatives. They deserve and need to know how, when he calls for particular matters to be addressed, those issues will be paid for.

The Deputy referred to the need for improved rates of public pay. Under the FEMPI legislation alone, the amount of unrestored earnings is €1.4 billion. The Deputy is asking me to deal with a particular matter - that of new entrants' starter salaries - in isolation, but it is vital that we demonstrate fairness for those who need public services as well as those who work within them. That is what I am doing.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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There is nothing fairer than the principle of equal pay for equal work. We have had several discussions on this issue, so it is on the record that my party is not asking for every FEMPI cut to be unwound in one go. We have called for a new collective agreement, one that is properly negotiated with the trade unions, in respect of 2019 to 2021, inclusive. In that context, it is appropriate that we once and for all put the issue of equal pay for equal work and the restoration of a single-tier pay structure on the table. The Minister asserts that I have a responsibility to account for such proposals, but how can I do so when even he, his Department and its Secretary General cannot provide one? When I met three of his departmental officials, they were unable to provide the cost. Provide the costings and then we can debate how to go about doing this, for example, in one year or over two or three years. Please, do not accuse us of being unable to do something that is impossible to do because the Department will not provide the costings.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy well knows that any change in respect of new entrants' pay or those who are at the start of a wage curve has consequences for everyone else. We cannot change wage curves for people who are joining the Civil Service, teaching or any other part of the public service without there being profound knock-on consequences for the entire wage bill. For this reason, the issues of retention and starting salaries must be examined in the context of the overall public service pay bill, which amounts to more than €13 billion. That is what the Public Service Pay Commission is doing. It will produce a report for the Government and the Oireachtas in the second quarter. In the aftermath of the Lansdowne Road agreement, we will begin negotiations, which I hope can be concluded, with unions to determine how we can make progress on these issues in an affordable way.