David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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10. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he can outline the arrangements, if any, for the provision of information by his Department to the Select Committee on Budgetary Oversight. [3274/17]

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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This is a general question about how the Minister sees the relationship between his Department and the Select Committee on Budgetary Oversight. We have had two examples of where sufficient information was not given to the committee. The first is the issue of the €120 million, with which we have already dealt. I do not want the Minister to rehearse that because we have heard the response and it is still not satisfactory.

The second was raised by a Teachta earlier, with regard to consultants' pay and contracts. The Minister did not answer the question to any satisfaction at all.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I listened to the Deputy state I have not answered the question to his satisfaction, but we should agree I should answer questions in such a way that reflects the interest of the taxpayers. I was very clear in the answer I gave to Deputy Calleary, that with regard to approaching cases, the State will robustly defend itself. The Deputy is asking me to come in here and identify a potential liability for the State that would then be the subject of court action. This runs counter to the interests of the taxpayers he purports to represent. He referred to the views he has on my not sharing information on how we will fund the agreement, which we debated earlier. I have answered this. As the Deputy outlined my participation in the committee, I hope he will take cognisance of the many information needs the committee has articulated to me and the Department which we have met and will continue to meet.

With regard to how we are looking to work in the coming year and beyond, as the Deputy is aware, in advance of budget 2017 we furnished to the committee the mid-year expenditure report, which laid out the expenditure expectations of the Government for 2017, 2018 and beyond. Since then, the Department has shared a range of documents and information to assist members of the Dáil and committee in exchanging and discharging their work on the budgetary process. Our expenditure report of 2017, which was published on budget day in October, set out the Government's proposed voted expenditure allocations and our expenditure measures for 2017. A summary response to the committee's views in its report on budget 2017 on issues relating to my area of responsibility was also published alongside the Estimates documentation.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

The Revised Estimates Volume published in December provides additional details in respect of the total gross voted expenditure allocation of more than €58 billion, with the expenditure Estimates supplemented with key performance information regarding programme output and impacts.

On a monthly basis, my Department prepares voted expenditure reports that are published with the monthly Exchequer returns.

The Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service publishes a range of documents that can inform budgetary discussions and these are available at .

As part of the ongoing engagement between the Department and the committee I understand the committee is scheduling a meeting with the Secretary General of the Department. I am fully supportive of the work of the committee and welcome the opportunity for the Department to discuss with the committee a structured process for the provision of information.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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With respect, I am fully aware of the Minister's responsibilities and I am equally aware of my responsibilities. I am not asking the Minister to comment on a liability which does not exist. I am asking him to explain, as he has been asked previously, how he will defend the consultants' contracts he says the State will defend potentially to save the State money if the State has decided to drop a High Court case relating to two individuals.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not the subject matter of Question No. 10.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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It is because-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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-----there is a potential cost to the State. Information will have to be provided to the-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Question No. 10 is about the arrangements, if any, for the provision of information by the Department to the Select Committee on Budgetary Oversight.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Yes, and this information will have to be provided because it is the committee that will scrutinise the potential liability and costs. The Minister must deal with the fears we have that there may be cost on this issue, and he has not done so. The issue was raised by another Teachta in the same context. It is a very important issue. It is the first time we have had an opportunity to put the question to the Minister with responsibility, and I hope he will be able to provide answers for us because until now he has not been able to do so.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I am glad to hear the Deputy acknowledge the dangers of his earlier line of approach, because he was asking me to comment on the magnitude of a cost the State does not believe it should incur. We will deal with the matter in court and make very clear, and in the strongest manner possible make known, the views of the Government on the contract for consultants and with regard to payments which they believe they are due which we will dispute.

With regard to my engagement with the Committee on Budgetary Oversight, as the matter develops, and where appropriate, of course I will be happy to deal with questions from Deputy Cullinane on the matter. It is a matter that will be dealt with in court and I reiterate I am not going to come into the House to quantify the level of costs which the State does not believe are due.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister is now stating there will not be any costs. I hope he will not be back in one, three or six months speaking about a cost and stating there will be a liability. In any event, I have dealt with the issue.

There is a real issue with regard to the ability of the Committee on Budgetary Oversight to do its job properly and fairly. I have given a number of examples where information will need to be given to allow us to scrutinise proper spending of public money. I appeal to the Minister because a number of Members in the House sit on the committee and we want it to work. We want to play a constructive part in holding to account the Government, which is our role and job, but we can only do so if we are given the information necessary for us to hold Ministers to account properly. Some on the committee fear that, until now, this has not happened and we are not being given the respect we deserve or the tools we need to do the job asked of us.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I was not happy with the answer the Minister gave on the consultants issue and I am not sure taxpayers would be happy either. Will the Minister provide the background material to the Committee on Budgetary Oversight? We do not need what is being used to fight the case. We want the material that is giving the Minister the confidence which he clearly has in the Chamber that no liability is likely to accrue because of this. How many more cases are pending? How many cases will potentially be pending? This is the type of information that needs to be provided to the Committee on Budgetary Oversight in order that it can adjudicate and its members can make up their minds, as is the responsibility conferred on them by the Oireachtas, on the potential severity of the issue. We cannot take the Minister's assurances. We need the information he has in order that the Oireachtas oversight committee can make a call on it.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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As an addendum to the question, has the Minister provided for funding for the budgetary oversight office itself in 2017?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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To answer that particular question, if the office is established in 2017, and I hope it will be, I believe the money will come out of the Oireachtas Vote. This is funded. With regard to the issues raised by the Deputies regarding the number of potential cases and what might happen in the coming period, I am willing to supply this information to the Committee on Budgetary Oversight. They were not the subject of this particular question, which is why I will not do so now. I reiterate, as I have made clear throughout the discussion, that with regard to the approaching cases, the State will strongly defend its view on the consultants' contracts and defend the actions taken then, because it is in the long-term interest of taxpayers and reflects policy decisions correctly taken at each point in the process.