Dáil debates

Wednesday, 26 October 2016

1:10 pm

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach if the new Cabinet committee which is overseeing the Government response to Brexit has met. [31698/16]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach if there have been specific steps taken to allow negotiations between Ireland and Britain on Brexit. [32049/16]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach the status of the invitations, format and schedule for the civic dialogue forum on 2 November 2016. [32051/16]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on Brexit has met twice to date, on 8 September and 19 October, for an in-depth discussion of the issues arising from the UK decision to leave the European Union. The committee will oversee the overall Government response, including both the economic impact and the negotiations at EU level and with the Administrations in London and Belfast. It will continue to meet on a regular basis to deal with Brexit-related issues.

Brexit has been a matter of regular and detailed consideration by the Government for some time, both in advance of the UK EU referendum and since. Since 23 June, seven memoranda have been submitted to the Government on the matter. Most recently, the Government discussed the action taken to date to prepare for Brexit, including, in particular, priority concerns for this country: the economy and trade; the peace process and Northern Ireland; the common travel area; and the future of the European Union. The Government also approved a range of further actions to ensure Ireland would be fully prepared for the difficult negotiations ahead.

There is ongoing close political and official engagement, including with the British Government, Northern Ireland and EU member states and institutions, on issues arising from Brexit. The Government has engaged in extensive contacts with our EU partners. In the aftermath of the referendum, I have had meetings with the British Prime Minister, Ms Theresa May, in London; the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, in Berlin; the French President, Francois Hollande, in Dublin and the European Council President, Mr. Donald Tusk, in Dublin. Most recently, on 12 October, I welcomed the European Commission’s chief Brexit negotiator, Mr. Michel Barnier, to Government Buildings, where we discussed Brexit in detail. Mr. Barnier, together with senior team members, also had meetings with the Tánaiste, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs and senior officials. I have also taken the opportunity, on the margins of recent EU summits, to raise our concerns with the President of the European Council, Mr. Jean-Claude Juncker, and other EU leaders. Other Ministers, including, of course, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs, are continually raising and explaining our concerns to our partners.

The annual summit of Secretaries General with UK Permanent Secretaries took place in London on 5 and 6 October. This well established annual forum served as a valuable vehicle for discussion and exploration of the implications of Brexit, in addition to providing for consideration of the broad areas of co-operation under the joint work programme. The Government also continues to work closely with the Northern Ireland Executive and the First Minister and the deputy First Minister, including, in particular, through the North-South Ministerial Council, which will meet in Armagh on 18 November.

The invitations to attend the conference on 2 November launching the all-island civic dialogue issued last week. Invitations have been extended to a broad range of civic society groups, trade unions, business groups, non-governmental organisations and representatives from political parties. The event will also be streamed live on the Internet. Further information will be sent to attendees in the coming days.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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One of the things about which I am a bit discommoded is that the Government says all the time, "We have to wait to see what the British are doing," or, "We are not sure what the British Government's negotiating position may be." I acknowledge that the Taoiseach was very active during the Brexit campaign and that he has been in contact with our partners within the European Union. However, as I said, what we have to do is get our own house in order. I am concerned that we may restrain ourselves in thinking within the context of what is happening in this State.

Given the age of the State and the length of time for which the parties have been in power, that is a very understandable position to take. Partitionism is writ large among the policy-makers and others within the establishment.

This is an opportunity to think island-wide and not just talk about the matter. We have an opportunity to do something concrete about it for all our sakes, not just in pursuit of Irish unity but also because it is proper to protect and defend all interests across the island of Ireland. This is particularly so because the people of the North voted to remain in the European Union. Those in the North with whom I have been in contact, MLAs, MPs and the MEP Martina Anderson, are all in contact with people who are constitutionally for the Union and are really concerned about the economic and other consequences of the Brexit strategy.

There are also major concerns about the continued provision of EU funding for cross-Border projects. The European Union stopped the funding projects. The British Government has given assurances on funding only for the period up to 2017. As the Taoiseach knows, there are 17 ready-to-go projects in Border counties, worth approximately €120 million. These are issues that need to be raised. Has he raised them within the European Union or with the British Government?

I finally got an answer to a certain question, for which I thank the Taoiseach. The question was on whether there was an agreement between the British and Irish Governments to have British immigration controls at Irish ports and airports. The British Government claims there is such an agreement, while the Taoiseach has said there is not. Has this been an issue for discussion? Is there a putative agreement being discussed at official level that has yet to receive political consideration or approval?

There is an argument for co-operation between all of the parties here on these matters. The Taoiseach may not want to disclose his hand in an open forum like this, but surely, in meetings with the other leaders, he could indicate in detail the substance of the discussions taking place between officials from his office and the British Government. Was this issue covered? There is a complete contradiction between what the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Mr. Brokenshire, said and what the Taoiseach has now said.

With regard to the specific dialogue taking place, we urged the Government initially to ensure it embraced all sectors and parts of the island. That is why I was and remain keen to see the invitation list which we still have not received. We actually made a written submission - I do not know whether other parties did so - to the Government and said the scope of the dialogue should be twofold. First, it should be to facilitate an inclusive process of open policy debate and inform the Government's medium-term political and policy response to the British Government's Brexit plans. We said this should form the basis of a Government Green Paper for wider public consultation. Second, we proposed that the authorities should agree on a policy framework that would shape the future strategic direction of the Government. We should set out a practical vision and an implementation plan that could form the basis of a Government White Paper. Does the Taoiseach agree with this approach? He accepts that Irish society as a whole will be affected by Brexit. Therefore, there needs to be an inclusive approach. It must include the education sector, students' representatives, the business sector, the churches, trade unions, farming organisations, people living in rural areas, sports bodies, human rights bodies, victims' groups and the various migrant organisations. I firmly believe we are not focusing enough on the possibilities and the necessity of having an all-island approach. One would be surprised by how welcome such an a process would be within the Unionist community in the North.

1:20 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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My question was on whether specific steps had been taken to allow negotiations between Ireland and Britain on Brexit. As the Taoiseach knows, this is complex enough. In essence, when Article 50 is triggered, there will be a process of exiting the European Union. Mr. Michel Barnier, in representing the European Commission, seems to believe that is the first part. The question of the replacement, or the subsequent relationship between Britain and the European Union, follows after that. In the meantime, there is contact between Dublin and London. There is an urgent need for a genuine framing of the issues pertaining to the British-Irish relationship and the North-South relationship, as it applies to people, goods and services. It is of considerable concern that we are not really much more beyond public statements on all sides, with Brussels and London talking up a hard Brexit. A hard Brexit would have very significant, serious and damaging repercussions for Ireland.

We are facing a deep economic and social threat. I read the reports and analysis of the Department of Finance on sectoral and economic exposure to Brexit. I refer to the effect on the pharmachemical and traditional manufacturing sectors, for example. It is concluded that the impact on the traditional manufacturing sector, SMEs in particular, will be worse felt in rural areas, or outside Dublin. I am not talking about the fall in the value of sterling. This phenomenon is separate from the devaluation of sterling. The impact on jobs will be particularly severe outside Dublin, particularly for SMEs. It is extremely serious, which is why I believe provision, even a contingency provision, should have been made for Brexit in the budget. In every budget from now on there should be contingency funding put aside in order that we would have some resources and reserves in place. It would be the cautious and wise thing to do and I am surprised it was not done in the budget for next year.

The Department of Finance's analysis which has been available to the Government for quite some time is downbeat about what will happen if there is a hard Brexit. We could be doing more to support our footprint overseas in order to create more markets and diversify market strengths in areas outside Britain. Our embassies should be strengthened and we should consider where we can open additional offices for Enterprise Ireland and IDA Ireland. We are very stretched across the entire process. When Britain leaves the European Union, our membership will be much different and that means a different diplomatic focus. It means that we will have to consider new alliances and develop stronger relationships with other countries across the European Union. Our diplomatic footprint, therefore, needs to be strengthened.

I welcome the civic dialogue forum. I suggested it when the group of party leaders met originally. It should be a listening exercise. We should listen as much as possible, as opposed to having a series of set-piece speeches. We can all make speeches, but it would be very useful if we were to listen to what community and business groups, employers, etc., had to say and their concerns and potential solutions, North and South. We could also hear about the cross-Border economic piece.

Will the number of meetings in the North-South structures increase? The First Minister, Ms Arlene Foster, said Brexit would be discussed only through the existing North-South structures. One would imagine, therefore, that there would have to be more North-South Ministerial Council meetings.

Will there be an increase in the number of these meetings? Has the Taoiseach established a dedicated group to work purely on the North-South dimension of the Brexit negotiations?

1:30 pm

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry, but the Taoiseach has just a minute left to respond because we must keep to the allocated time.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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First, the civic forum, from the political point of view, should be a listening exercise. It is not about grandstanding by political parties across the entire island. That is why, in an all-island sense, people will have their opportunities to come along and say their piece. However, it is not just a one-day event. There will be a follow-through with sectoral areas both North and South so that we get that true voice to which Deputy Martin referred.

Traditional manufacturing and small and medium enterprises here are a real focus of where the Government must be. To that extent, the budget contained a number of measures in respect of Enterprise Ireland, extra staff, extra facilities and a capacity to consider where new markets can apply because that is what will have to happen here. There are programmes, as the Deputy is aware, such as the LEAN programmes, market diversification, innovation and management development and so on, and there are so many very bright young people who are well able to make a break into new markets for different products and firms here. Clearly, this is a major priority for Government, our citizens, our economy, our jobs and our links with Northern Ireland, the UK and beyond to Europe.

Deputy Martin is quite right that while the challenges ahead are unknown, at least if we knew at this stage what Britain's ask will be, we could focus on that. It seems as if the Prime Minister has made it clear that the UK does not seek any kind of Norwegian system or a Swiss system, but a bespoke British requirement. In the update she gave to the other leaders at the European Council meeting, she said she would like to see the exit process be professional and well managed and said that would be of benefit to both Europe and to Britain. Obviously, there will be discussions and negotiation about that. I will arrange for a briefing for Deputies Martin and Adams and anybody else by the senior officials here, who will give the Deputies the details of what they have been discussing with permanent secretaries across the water. They cannot get into too much detail because the Government has not made its decision. As the weeks go on, arising from the civic dialogue and the North-South Ministerial Council, we will have a wealth of information on which we can begin to focus. However, really and truly, until the Prime Minister moves and triggers Article 50, we will not be in a position to say what the definitive position is of the British Government. President Juncker, President Tusk and everybody else have made it clear that there will not be any formal negotiation until that happens. Michel Barnier will be around to everybody in the meantime. The Minister of State, Deputy Dara Murphy, has been meeting all his counterparts. The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Flanagan, has the same requirement as all Ministers at a European level to make direct contact so that people understand in the first instance from a European perspective the importance of the peace process, the connections between Ireland and Britain and so on. I will see that Deputies Martin and Adams are briefed at the-----

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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All party leaders would be good.

Photo of Dara MurphyDara Murphy (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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That is what the Taoiseach said: "anybody else."

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Of course Deputy Ryan is also fully entitled to a briefing on the issues that have been discussed at permanent secretary level so that the range can be there for everybody to see. Gabh mo leithscéal, Deputy Ryan.

Question No. 4 replied to with Written Answers.