Maria Bailey (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Deputies Martin Kenny, Martin Ferris, Micheál Martin and Thomas Pringle have three minutes each.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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More than 400 people who have been trained by the National Maritime College of Ireland over the past year or so now find that they are not being certified. If this situation is not resolved, all of these people will be out of work from 1 January 2017. They will be unable to take up positions in Ireland or anywhere else in the world. It is intolerable that these people cannot be employed on any vessel anywhere until they get this certification in place. There seems to be some kind of stand-off between the Marine Survey Office, which is part of the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, and the National Maritime College of Ireland. We need to get this resolved as quickly as possible. Many of these people cannot go anywhere else in the world to get these courses. They took these courses in good faith and expected that everything would be all right. It is intolerable that they have been left out in the cold in this manner. I implore the Minister to sort out this problem as a matter of urgency. It needs to be done immediately in order that people can be reassured. No one is aware of any reason this situation has not been resolved up to now.

Martin Ferris (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Up to 400 seafarers and 20 lecturers are poised to lose their jobs on 1 January 2017. Their jobs will be at risk unless we resolve a dispute between the National Maritime College of Ireland and the Marine Survey Office. In February 2015, the National Maritime College of Ireland made a submission to the Marine Survey Office seeking approval of a refresher course, but it has not yet received such approval. Following the Marine Survey Office's failure to respond, the National Maritime College of Ireland approached the UK Marine and Coastguard Agency through a dedicated maritime offshore joint venture training company. The UK agency is highly regarded globally and has approved courses undertaken in a number of EU member states, including France, Spain, the Netherlands and Croatia. Every member state recognises the appropriate certificates issued by other member states. The seafaring upgrade that was carried out by the UK Marine and Coastguard Agency in conjunction with the National Maritime College of Ireland relates to on-board safety and basic seafaring safety skills.

The Minister can resolve the stand-off that has developed as a consequence of all this. He needs to convince the Marine Survey Office of the legitimacy of the refresher courses that were provided by the UK Marine and Coastguard Agency. The agency, which is recognised globally, came here to provide these courses, and 400 seafarers took part in them.

Their jobs are now at risk if this is not resolved, as well as the jobs of 20 lecturers.

I believe the Marine Survey Office is in contravention of Article 3 of the 2005 directive due it not recognising this. I understand the National Maritime College of Ireland has written to the Minister about this and is awaiting a response. Has the Minister received and read that letter? It can also test this by proceeding through court proceedings if necessary. This could be very embarrassing both nationally and internationally for the Minister's office and the situation pertaining to the recognition of the legitimacy of this course.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for attending this debate. I ask him to intervene in this situation, not just in terms of the specific issues in dispute but also with regard to the wider issue of the relationship between the Marine Survey Office, the Department and the National Maritime College of Ireland. As the Minister with responsibility for education at the time, I was involved in sanctioning the public private partnership that led to the establishment of the National Maritime College of Ireland for €65 million in capital spend, a major infrastructure in maritime education. It is dismaying and deeply depressing that a row of this nature has developed. The level of hostility, although that might be too strong a word, between a national college and a parent Department is unacceptable.

My colleague, Deputy Michael McGrath, attended a meeting yesterday with some officials from the Marine Survey Office, MSO, and the head of the maritime college. There was a robust exchange of views. It should never have come to this, that there is a major public dispute about accreditation in the maritime field. That, above all else, demands the Minister's intervention, and his commitment and determination to resolve this and to put the relationship between his Department, the agencies under the Department and the maritime college on a better footing for the future. As a former Minister with responsibility for education I cannot comprehend how such a dispute has developed. One does not see this type of intractable row developing with Cork Institute of Technology, CIT, the institutes of technology, universities, the National University of Ireland, the Further Education and Training Awards Council, FETAC, the Higher Education and Training Awards Council, HETAC and further education bodies.

In this case, 400 mariners had been certified under a British accreditation agency. The programmes were delivered in a joint venture by the National Maritime College of Ireland and SEFtec Global Training. They offer these courses, a number of refresher training courses, in the maritime college in Ringaskiddy. They are approved by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency in the United Kingdom, but not by the Irish equivalent. That is contrary to the mutual recognition of qualifications directive under the European Union. It appears that the MSO is requiring fully qualified master mariners to deliver the courses whereas people who have knowledge of this issue say it is not the place of master mariners to teach these basic courses. In colleges throughout the world the courses are taught by ex-boatswains, ex-petty officers from the navy or other such seamen who are used to launching and recovering life rafts, lifeboats and so forth on a daily basis. Likewise, firefighting courses are normally taught by people who are experienced firefighters. Ship masters are not required. There appears to be a lack of pragmatic engagement here.

The upshot is a damaging public dispute, which I regret, as well as potential redundancies, the ending of the joint venture, damage to the reputation of the college and the undermining of its future. I urge the Minister to become involved due to the macro dimension to this, the need to put that relationship on a much better footing than it currently is. He also must have the issue sorted for the 400 people who have done the course.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal, Independent)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for accepting this issue today. I am not surprised we are discussing it. It is good that it is being aired in the House. It should not have come to this but we must air the matter now to ensure we do not have to return to it in the future.

The most damning part of the statement from the NMCI is that it applied for accreditation in February 2015 and as of yesterday it still had not received formal approval for the course. Noting the delays in the Marine Survey Office, it was able to go to the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, MCA, in the UK, get approval in May or June last year and have a course up and running in August 2015. It has now trained more than 400 personnel and given them a European recognised accreditation, yet the Marine Survey Office refuses to recognise that accreditation. There is something badly wrong if such a situation can develop and the inertia from February 2015 through to today is allowed to continue.

I have dealt with fishermen who were obliged to deal with the Marine Survey Office over the years and I am aware that they have great difficulty getting processed and dealt with through that office. I have raised issues on numerous occasions in the House relating to fishermen getting their skipper's tickets recognised for work in the offshore industry and in the workboat industry. In the UK jurisdiction, a person who has a full skipper's ticket can automatically get a workboat licence for a workboat up to 500 tonne weight. One cannot do that here. The Marine Survey Office insists that the person must go on a two-year course in the national college and work up six months sea time in the sector before it might consider giving them the certificate. There is a real problem with the Marine Survey Office responding to the needs of people working in the industry and getting their certification.

I hope the Minister will intervene to resolve this issue and that the issue can be resolved. The prospect of 400 seafarers being out of work, the possible closure of the training course and the losses this would cause is too much to lose at this stage. However, it might be welcome if it leads to changes in the Marine Survey Office so that it will do what it is supposed to do and respond by facilitating the training and allowing it to happen, rather than sitting on an application for more than 16 months with nothing being done about it.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I thank the Deputies for raising this subject. I will address the immediate issue for those who are unaware of it. There was a meeting yesterday between my officials and representatives of the MSO and the NMCI and it appears they have reached an agreement on a solution to this problem. However, I take the point made by Deputy Martin, which is new to me. If there is a bad relationship between the two organisations concerned and if it is a permanently bad relationship, I will address it with the officials and find out what is happening. Obviously that could have led to this outbreak, although I am not saying it did.

One of the features of this row was that an extraordinary amount of political speed and agility was shown. I learned about it last Thursday or Friday night. Deputy Ferris asked me to intervene. I am not prone to intervening directly unless I have to, but I rapidly asked my officials to meet with the MSO people involved. They did that yesterday. It appears at this stage to have been sorted on agreeable terms. The implementation of it is still to be proven, but the action terms appear to be agreed. I will address the wider subject and if there is bad blood between these two organisations, let us address it. In the meantime, the intervention, the fact that they met and that there was not so much megaphone diplomacy meant it could be resolved to the satisfaction, I believe, of all parties involved in a very short time.

I will outline some of the background to this dispute and the parties involved. Ireland is a party to the International Convention on the Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers, STCW. This is the convention which regulates the safety of seafarers on a global basis. Ireland has been subject to evaluation by the International Maritime Organisation, IMO, which has confirmed that Ireland is giving full and complete effect to the provisions of this convention, as a result of which Ireland is placed on the IMO whitelist for the provision of maritime education and training.

We also comply fully with all our international obligations relating to mutual recognition of qualification in the maritime sector.

My Department, through the MSO, approves and certifies a number of providers within the State for the provision of training in accordance with the convention. This includes the National Maritime College of Ireland, which is the principal provider of seafarer training in Ireland. My Department also approves many other course providers that provide short courses in sea survival, boat handling and firefighting skills. The Deputies will appreciate that the provision of courses in line with an international convention in safety is one which is taken very seriously by my Department. The Deputies have raised an issue which has been the subject of a good deal of communications in recent weeks between SEFtec NMCI Overseas Training, the commercial partners of the National Maritime College of Ireland, among others, and my own Department. My Department has, at all times, endeavoured to engage constructively with what are sometimes sensitive and complex issues.

I am also aware that there have been media inquires during the past week to which we have provided responses, so I am happy to have this opportunity this afternoon, as Minister with responsibility for safety regulation in the maritime sector, to clarify a number of important issues on the record and for the benefit of Members of the House who may have concerns or inquiries on behalf of constituents. Let me at this point confirm that my Department, through the MSO, has approved the programmes mentioned by the Deputies in the National Maritime College of Ireland. The NMCI sought approval in 2015 for these programmes, which are mandated by the convention I mentioned earlier. The programmes cover a number of vital safety areas, including sea survival, boat handling and fire fighter skills. Full approval was granted in autumn last year in respect of two of the five categories sought. On the remaining three categories of courses, a final application was received in spring 2016. My Department has given preliminary approval to the NMCI to deliver these courses. Final approval is given when my Department officials attend the first programme and confirm that it is delivered in accordance with the approval. This is a normal practice when certain programmes are being approved.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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If a meeting has occurred between the Department and the two organisations, they have buried the hatchet to some extent at least and got things moving along, then that is very good news and a positive outcome. The issue, which has been going on for a considerable length of time between these two organisations, needs to be resolved permanently. I am sure that the Minister and his staff will work to ensure that whatever kind of reconciliation is required will happen quickly and that we will not be in this position again. It is deplorable that two State organisations providing a service as vital as this one should be at loggerheads over something. It is unbelievable that it can come to this stage. I welcome the result that has occurred. I hope we will work out a way to ensure this never happens again.

Martin Ferris (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister for intervening effectively to resolve this dispute. It is an indictment of the entire system when it takes an intervention by the Minister to resolve it, for which I commend him. People who have the trust of the Government and elected representatives should live up to and honour that trust, not be in the situation where we read headlines in the papers about what is happening, where the livelihoods of 400 plus people were in jeopardy because of ego, or for whatever reason this could not be resolved. From what I have been told about this and what I have read about it, the intervention is timely in so far as this could have ended up in the courts. It would have been highly embarrassing from a European perspective, especially in the EU maritime section. It would have been highly embarrassing for our situation here. I again thank the Minister for intervening and commend him on it.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his response. I have not used the phrase "bad blood", but I make these assertions in the context of what has unfolded. It seems difficult to comprehend how the situation developed in the manner it has. The Minister was not in a position to give the full reply because of time constraints, but he said that final approval is given when Department officials, "attend the first programme and confirm that it is delivered in accordance with the approval". To date I see that the NMCI has not notified us of the date for the first programme. This is contrary to what we have been told about the courses. The Minister's full reply states that he is conscious of the plight of the 400 mariners, that the reasons are too complex to go into any real detail, but he will do something about it.

I trust that anyone who has undertaken the courses will have validation and be sorted, because they undertook them in good faith. I welcome the Minister's intention to get involved in the relationship issue, because there should be a seamless system in place to facilitate accreditation of courses delivered by national colleges. The Minister's reply confirms that this college is a main provider of a range of seafaring programmes under the auspices of the MSO. Therefore, it is imperative that a seamless, constructive, engaged process is delivered in terms of accreditation of programmes. The joint venture is an important enterprise because it is key to the Cork harbour area and to the development of education and research. The National Maritime College is a very important aspect of that. We are a maritime nation.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for his response. I am glad to hear that this issue has been resolved. Again, it should not have to be taken to the floor of the House to be resolved and the Minister should not have to intervene in a process to make sure that a resolution is reached. I welcome the fact this has happened because that might change the practices and change how business is done between the Marine Survey Office and the people it is there to service. Sometimes you wonder whose role it is to service who. That might be part of the problem. We also get the suggestion thrown up that this is a safety issue. That is a way to try to shut down any discussion and conversation on how business is carried out. I urge the Minister to make sure we do not get into this kind of situation again in the future. That is the key thing that has to be learnt from this.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I thank the Deputies for their responses. I cannot promise the same result in any other disputes looming on the horizon, but this one seems to be resolved for the moment and I hope permanently.

The area covering the seafarers is a big issue. For those who might have been in limbo and those who have already undergone relevant training in SNO, which are obviously parallel or similar programmes to the ones the Deputies referred, I make it clear we are conscious of their position. Without getting into the details, some of which are quite complex, I can confirm that a process is being put in place which will ensure that maritime safety, employment and the validity of the qualifications of seafarers are fully respected and protected. I understand that both parties have undertaken to act very quickly to ensure that the necessary applications, analyses and validation can take place within a matter of weeks, and that no further disruption to course activities need occur, nor should there be any further question mark relating to employment.

In passing, I thank not just all the Deputies here who have been involved, but Deputy Michael McGrath for the role he played in bringing everybody to the table.