Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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20. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence his plans for Columb Barracks in Mullingar, County Westmeath; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16888/16]

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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29. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if he is aware that a local group in Mullingar, County Westmeath, is carrying out feasibility studies for the possible future use of Columb Barracks; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16889/16]

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State will remember that in the last quarter of 2011 the previous Fine Gael and Labour Party Government decided with the stroke of a pen to close Columb Barracks in Mullingar and in doing so broke a rich Defence Forces tradition in the town. To date, the Department has done nothing to try to secure an alternative use for this fine premises and the facilities that remain there. I want to give the Minister of State an opportunity in the House today to outline his Department's plans for the long-term use of this site.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 20 and 29 together.

Following the closure of Columb Barracks in 2012, my Department has explored a number of avenues to try to secure the long-term future of the former barracks for the benefit of the local community. Departments and other public bodies, including Westmeath County Council, have been invited to declare any interest in acquiring the property. To date no interest has been identified.

As the barracks is no longer required for military purposes, the current financial and administrative burden resulting from the retention of the barracks cannot be sustained. The disposal of the property by public auction will be actively progressed in keeping with the Government’s policy and recent practice to dispose of surplus property no longer required for military purposes.

In the context of its potential future use contributing to the positive development of Mullingar, my Department remains open to viable proposals to these ends from Westmeath County Council. Having regard to the local community and development interest, I suggest that any local groups should engage with Westmeath County Council to explore such opportunities.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The first time the Department met Westmeath County Council was earlier this year. Prior to that, there had been no interaction. There are community groups using that facility at the moment - the GAA, the youth cafe, the Organisation of National Ex-Service Personnel - and many more community groups wish to avail of the facility. The simple fact is that the Department cannot expect Westmeath County Council, which already lacks sufficient funding to provide the services it is meant to be providing, to take this on board and open it to a wider community without getting the necessary financial supports from the Department. There is a public meeting this Thursday night, which I have convened to ascertain the level of public interest in the future use of this facility. If a plan were devised, would the Department press the pause button and say it will not put it up for public auction in order to give the community an opportunity to carry out a feasibility study and present the plan? Would the Department look at funding the implementation of that plan into the future?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Department of Defence cannot be the landlord to a facility. We have given Westmeath County Council every opportunity to take over the barracks. Officials from my Department have been in contact with Westmeath County Council. I am also very much aware that Deputy Troy has spoken to officials from my Department and this has been outlined to him on a number of occasions. I hope he will be able to recognise that the Department of Defence cannot be the landlord of the barracks for the foreseeable future. As Deputy Troy well knows, the barracks is falling into disrepair and money needs to be spent on it. I understand there are a number of community groups in the barracks at present, but my officials will be in contact with the CEO of Westmeath County Council to ask whether it has a future in mind for the barracks. As Deputy Troy well knows, if State property is going from one institution of the State to another, we can hammer out some sort of a deal on that. I understand there is a public meeting on Thursday evening, but after that meeting, Deputy Troy and others can go to Westmeath County Council and explain their plan to the council.

I have spoken to officials in my own Department, as the Deputy has, and if there is no proposal we will go ahead with the sale. The proposal would have to come from Westmeath County Council so that it could be the landlord of all the community groups. It is not the responsibility of the Department of Defence to be the landlord for community groups.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with the Minister that there is a sense of urgency, but why is that? It is because the Department did nothing in respect of this matter for four years but now the Minister of State wants us to have a public meeting on Thursday night and to come back very quickly with a plan. The Minister of State had four years to devise a plan and did not do so, but he wants us to do it in four days.

I ask him to press the pause button on this. Tell us on the floor of the House that the barracks will not go to public auction for the foreseeable future. Afford the community an opportunity to bring forward a plan. There are some very good ideas. It can be used for educational facilities or to house the Reserve Defence Force, in respect of which the Department is paying €25,000 per annum to a private landlord down the road. It can be used by the GAA or Mullingar Arts Centre. We want a commitment from the Minister to press the pause button so that the barracks does not go for public auction in the foreseeable future. He should allow an opportunity for community groups to come together to carry out a feasibility study for the long-term use of this facility. They could work with Westmeath County Council and Westmeath-Longford Education and Training Board, which might also have an interest in the building in terms of the provision of post leaving certificate courses or a new secondary school in Mullingar, something that is badly needed. The Minister should enable the community groups to work together to provide what was promised when he closed the facility - namely, that it would remain in community use.

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I am providing a bit of latitude to the Deputy and the Minister on this, as there are two questions taken together.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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There is a template in the form of what happened with the barracks in Cavan and Clonmel, which were closed at the same time. Cavan VEC took over Cavan barracks and Tipperary County Council has taken over Clonmel. I believe there are different tenants there now but I am open to correction on that. In any event, both communities were very active from the time their barracks closed in trying to find alternative uses for them. The security costs to the Department of Defence in 2015 were approximately €34,000. If we do not do something with Mullingar barracks and there is an accident, such as someone falling through a ceiling or something like that, the Deputy would be the first person on my doorstep asking why the Department left it in such a state and did not dispose of it. That is why I have taken a personal interest in this case. I am open to proposals-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Is the Minister of State open to the idea of allowing six months for proposals to be brought forward?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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-----but any proposal will have to come through Westmeath County Council.

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has one minute for a supplementary question.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The mind boggles with the thought that the Department is paying €34,000 per annum for security costs while paying €25,000 per annum for the Reserve Defence Force to train a couple of hundred metres down the road. That is mind-boggling and the Minister of State should be ashamed to say it on the floor of this House. The Reserve Defence Force wanted to continue to use the facility and would have been more than capable of maintaining it.

Nothing has happened because the previous Government gave a commitment that it would stay in community use. It entered negotiations with the GAA but reneged on those, and that is why we are now in the position we are in. I agree that something has to be done but I ask that the Minister put a timeline in place so that the community groups have six months to carry out feasibility studies.

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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There are 50 seconds left. Does the Deputy want to hear the Minister?

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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They can work with the education and training boards to see if it can be used for the community into the future.

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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There are now 48 seconds left. I ask the Minister to be brief.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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It boggles my mind, too, that the Deputy has suddenly developed a great interest in this since I first said I had taken an interest in trying to dispose of Mullingar barracks. In the past five years neither my Department nor I have received one proposal-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, the record must be corrected.

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Allow the Minister to speak. The Deputy will get his chance in a moment. There are no points of order in this case.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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He actually received two proposals for the future use of the facility.

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Let the Minister finish his response.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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He received one during the negotiations on the White Paper on Defence-----

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Deputy to take his seat and stop shouting.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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-----and his predecessor received a proposal. The current Minister of State may not have seen it but proposals were made on the future use of the facility. It cannot be said that this is the first time I have taken an interest in this. The record will speak for the number of times I have raised this issue.

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Please do not disrespect the Chair like that again. I have given the Deputy all the latitude I could to assist him in getting to the bottom of this issue and I do not appreciate his taking advantage of the Chair in this way. Do not interrupt again.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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We have not received any proposal from Westmeath County Council, though we have given the council every opportunity to come forward with a proposal. I will take any proposal from Westmeath County Council on the use of these barracks.

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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We have heard that point, Minister.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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For safety reasons, if we do not get such a proposal I will go ahead with the sale of Mullingar barracks.