Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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19. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence when the numbers in the Permanent Defence Force will reach the agreed ceiling of 9,500; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16898/16]

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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23. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if he is achieving optimum strength of the Army, Naval Service and Air Corps; the number of personnel who retired in the past 12 months; if recruitment is required in the short and medium term; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16708/16]

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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When does the Minister of State expect Permanent Defence Force numbers to reach the ceiling of 9,500 personnel?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 19 and 23 together.

The Government is committed to maintaining the stabilised strength of the Permanent Defence Force at 9,500 personnel, comprising 7,520 Army personnel, 886 Air Corps personnel and 1,094 Naval Service personnel, as stated in the 2015 White Paper on Defence. I am advised by the military authorities that the strength of the Permanent Defence Force at 31 May 2016, the latest date for which details are available, was 9,137 personnel, comprising 7,310 Army personnel, 733 Air Corps personnel and 1,094 Naval Service personnel. The manpower requirement of the Defence Forces is monitored on an ongoing basis in accordance with the operational requirements of each of the three services. Personnel are posted on the basis of operational needs across the organisation both at home and abroad and not on a regional basis. As there is significant turnover of personnel in the Permanent Defence Force targeted recruitment has been and is currently taking place so as to maintain the agreed strength levels. The current general service recruitment campaign, which was launched on 13 April 2016, envisages an intake of 600 general service recruits in 2016 and a further 850 in 2017. This recruitment will be phased over the 2016 and 2017 period in a manner designed to restore the established strength and plans are being put in place to this end.

The military authorities have advised of the following intake in 2016 to date. There have been 241general service recruits inducted in 2016, with a further 150 having completed their recruit training in 2016 following induction in the fourth quarter of 2015. An Air Corps aircraft apprentice technician competition is planned later in 2016. The intake of cadets into the Permanent Defence Force is normally carried out on an annual basis, taking into consideration the operational requirements of the Defence Forces and the resource envelope allocated to defence. There are 75 cadets scheduled to be inducted in the third quarter following the current cadet competitions. The breakdown is 50 Army personnel, 15 Naval Service personnel and ten Air Corps personnel. Direct entry competitions are also held as required from which specialist appointments are filled.

Given that personnel can retire from the Permanent Defence Force for a variety of reasons, the Deputy will appreciate that it is not possible to accurately forecast retirements at this stage for 2016. However, I am advised by the military authorities that in 2015, 76 officers and 491 enlisted ranks retired or were discharged. Up to 31 May 2016, 34 officers and 193 enlisted ranks have retired or were discharged. In line with human resources policy, there is significant turnover of personnel in the Permanent Defence Force due to the requirement to maintain a lower age profile. With the support of the chief of staff and within the resources available, it is intended to retain the capacity of the Defence Forces to operate effectively across all roles and to undertake the tasks laid down by Government both at home and overseas.

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I was told in a written reply in April this year that the serving strength of the Permanent Defence Force, PDF, was 9,146, which is nine fewer than October 2015. The former Minister, Deputy Coveney, stated that budget 2016 includes the provision of €416 million for Permanent Defence Force pay and this would allow for the payment of the full establishment of 9,500 personnel in line with the commitment in the White Paper on Defence. Will this happen in 2016?

In October 2014, the former Minister, Deputy Coveney, highlighted that 220 recruits were in training, with plans under way to enlist 180 additional recruits by the end of 2014. Yet in 2015, we dropped a further 140 members. When will we see numbers reach 9,500? Will it be in 2016? If the budget exists for it, why is not being achieved? The Minister of State has spoken about significant turnover, how it has always been that way and that he is very aware of that. If he is aware of the turnover, why is there no foresight and forward planning to ensure we keep those numbers at 9,500 personnel, rather than leaning back on the excuse for not reaching the levels to which we have committed?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Recruitment of personnel in any calendar year can fluctuate, depending on timing of recruitment, the holding of competitions and establishment of panels, Garda vetting and ongoing operational requirements that can impact the recruitment and training capacity. In 2015, 386 personnel were recruited, with 307 personnel recruited to the general service, 49 cadets for the 2015 cadet competitions, five Naval Service personnel, 19 personnel for the Defence Forces school of music, 24 personnel for the Air Corps, one medical officer and one conductor for the school of music. In 2014, 505 personnel were recruited, although I will not go through the numbers for specific areas in that calendar year. In 2013, 404 personnel were recruited.

I assure the Deputy that the Government and Defence Forces are ensuring that we hold at the ceiling of 9,500 personnel, although it is quite difficult at times because of the numbers of people leaving. It fluctuates from year to year. I outlined to the Deputy the number of people we are taking in for 2016 and 2017 to try to bring the level to 9,500 personnel.

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State still has not answered my question of when it is expected to reach 9,500 personnel. It is not something that can be arrived at magically. There are ways and means of achieving the number and the Minister of State knows the difficulties in the recruitment process. They exist every year and we must plan to deal with those difficulties, ensure we can overcome them and reach the targets we have set.

It was suggested by my predecessor on this bench that some of the defence budget is often held back to deal with an overrun on the Army pension side. Is this true? It certainly seems plausible when the Department's ministerial brief indicates there has been a continuous structural under-provision for the Army pension, resulting in successive Supplementary Estimates every year since 2005. It also indicates that the Department has managed to meet those shortfalls from payroll savings on the Defence Forces, with the example of payroll savings arising from the gap between retirements and the recruitment of replacement personnel. Will the Minister of State comment on that and is it why we see a continued shortfall? Is it deliberate and why have we not reached the target?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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It is the Government's intention to maintain the stabilised strength of the Permanent Defence Force at 9,500, the optimum level to fulfil all roles assigned by government. In this context of the current strength being below the agreed strength as indicated, targeted recruitment is taking place within the resource envelope available to the Department. I am very much aware of the Deputy's concerns in the area about bringing strength to 9,500 personnel but I state again that this depends on fluctuating levels of people leaving from year to year. I cannot say at the start of a recruitment process that X number will leave and they must be replaced. We do our best-----

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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What about the pensions question? Is part of the budget held back every year to supplement the pensions shortfall?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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-----to keep up the number. I do not want to say-----

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State can get back to me if he cannot reply now.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I will revert but I do not want to say a section of the budget is being held back to pay pensions. That is not the case. I will get the Deputy a full reply on that.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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My apologies for arriving late. It takes a little while to get from my office over to here.

Is there a procedure within the Defence Forces whereby potential retirements are identified as a need for further recruitment, or are they identified as potential savings in the course of any particular year? To what extent can the Minister put in place a procedure whereby there is an automatic kick-in system under which losses or retirements are recorded or anticipated in advance, with a view to making the provision by way of recruitment? To what extent does his reply to the question so far relate to the Army, the Navy and the Air Corps separately?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Department and the Defence Forces try at the start of every year to calculate how many retirements they expect in that calendar year. As I have said to the Deputy opposite, that fluctuates from time to time. It is very difficult to say exactly how many will retire. I have already indicated that personnel can retire from the Defence Forces for a variety of reasons and the Deputy will, therefore, appreciate that it is not possible to forecast retirements accurately for 2016 at this stage. However, I am advised by the military authorities that in 2015, 76 officers and 490 members of the enlisted ranks retired or were discharged and up to 21 May 2016, 34 officers and 193 in the enlisted ranks have retired or were discharged. In line with human resources policy, there is a significant turnover of personnel in the Permanent Defence Forces due to the requirement to maintain a lower age profile. I assure the Deputy that we continue to monitor this on an ongoing basis, to the best of the Department's and the Defence Forces' ability, to try to ensure that we replace the number of personnel retiring.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Is provision made automatically in respect of sensitive areas of the Defence Forces where retirements or resignations might cause a particular void in the structure and strength of the Defence Forces and its ability to respond to particular circumstances? To what extent can provision be made on an ongoing basis to ensure those vacancies are being provided for?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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That is monitored on an ongoing basis, but I assure the Deputy that there are people ready and able to take up whatever positions people retire from. The Defence Forces have well-trained people who are capable of taking over whatever role may become vacant as a result of a retirement. Going back to the Deputy's other question, the current general service recruitment campaign, which was launched on 13 April 2016, envisages 600 general service recruits in 2016 and a further 850 in 2017. I understand that as of 31 May 2016, 34 officers and 193 enlisted ranks have retired or were discharged. I assure the Deputy that this is monitored and if someone is required in a particular role, there are people who have the capability to take over whatever position is required.