Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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14. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the steps he is taking to address the attrition rate in the Defence Forces and the loss of many highly trained and skilled persons; to identify the cause of early departures; to encourage and support retention of personnel; when he will review the pay for members of the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17095/16]

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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What steps is the Minister taking to address the huge attrition rate in the Defence Forces and the loss of many highly trained and skilled personnel? What steps is he taking to identify the cause of these early departures? What measures are he and the Department taking to encourage and support the retention of personnel? When does he expect to conduct a pay review for members of the Defence Forces?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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First, I congratulate Deputy Lisa Chambers on her election and on her appointment as Fianna Fáil spokesperson on defence.

As the Deputy will be aware, during the economic crisis, recruitment was conducted within a constrained resource envelope, taking into account the need to continue to procure essential systems and equipment for the Defence Forces. Balancing recruitment and equipment investment was essential so as to ensure that the Defence Forces could continue to perform all the functions assigned to them by the Government. Notwithstanding this the Defence Forces, uniquely within the public service, continued to recruit. In addition, very significant investment was made in equipment replenishment, not least the procurement of new vessels for the Naval Service and a range of force protection equipment, including a fleet of light tactical armoured vehicles, for the Army.

The Defence Forces are currently engaged in a major programme of recruitment to bring the number of serving personnel back up to the authorised strength of 9,500. More than 600 personnel will be recruited this year and it is planned to recruit 850 personnel in 2017. However, given the numbers leaving, either on retirement or to avail of the opportunities their significant Defence Forces professional skills training offers them in the wider economy, it is likely that we will continue to turn over personnel on an annual basis. As such, it will take time to return the Defence Forces to their full strength.

Given the unique and demanding nature of military life, there is understandably a high level of turnover among Defence Forces personnel. However, this is not new. The Defence Forces have always had a large turnover of approximately 500 personnel annually. Moreover, a certain level of turnover is necessary to maintain an appropriate age profile across the Defence Forces as a whole.

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister's response appears to be that money has been spent on equipment, that recruitment has continued, albeit that it has clearly not been effective enough to reach the required personnel numbers, and that equipment has been provided for the Naval Service. All of that is very much appreciated but my question was about the retention of personnel. The Minister talked about recruiting personnel to bridge the gap but that is not prevention. It is a cure for the numbers who have already left. How do we keep the personnel we have, the people we have spent a great deal of money training? There is great concern that the early departure of many personnel could affect our Defence Forces' capabilities and operations.

The exodus of officers from the Defence Forces could seriously affect our capabilities. According to the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO, 48 applications are being processed this year in addition to the more than 90 vacancies that already exist. Last year, 76 officers left the Defence Forces. This flight of talent was highlighted by RACO's magazine, Signal, with the general secretary saying that management has disappointingly failed to engage or constructively respond to issues and concerns raised at RACO's conference last year. He also highlighted the pressing requirement to address family-friendly practices and policies to support officers who are continually being re-located. Clearly, the abolition of the western brigade has contributed to that also.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I understand the Deputy's concerns. It is very important that we invest in equipment because we must ensure the Defence Forces personnel have the capability to carry out their role in peacekeeping operations, training and so forth. Equipment is important for that.

I take the Deputy's point that there has been a high number of departures. However, in the last number of years, there has been an average trend in that regard and the number is not more now than it was in the past. There are more opportunities for people in the private sector now. The Deputy referred to the number of officers leaving the Defence Forces to go into the private sector. I have raised this with the Department and the Defence Forces but it simply indicates how highly qualified the people who are trained by the Defence Forces are. It is not nice to lose those highly trained men and women to the private sector.

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Again, I did not raise a concern about purchasing equipment. I welcome that; we need the equipment. However, our people are our most valuable asset in the Defence Forces. We are currently losing them at an alarming rate and the private sector is benefitting enormously. We pay to train them but we are not doing enough to keep them in the Defence Forces. To state simply that we have always had a high turnover does not justify the problem continuing to exist. We must endeavour to tackle the problem now and ensure we retain those people in so far as we can. Reports indicate that the Naval Service is short of marine engineers and electrical engineers. It can take up to five years to train officers. Many officers in the Air Corps who have amassed significant experience are being headhunted. We are aware this is happening. It is due to the fact that pay and conditions are not good enough to retain those people. In addition, the loss of the western brigade has led to greater relocation of officers on a more regular basis, leading to less family-friendly working conditions. Again, this is a contributing factor.

We can and must take measures to address this. I am not advocating that we do not spend money on equipment. We must have equipment to ensure that people can work safely in their jobs. However, we must invest in our people and ensure that we retain them after spending a great deal of money training them to bring them to the very high standard the Minister mentioned. We should keep them in our Defence Forces.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I have been advised by the military authorities that in line with current public service remuneration policy, there are no specific financial incentive personnel retention schemes in place for the Defence Forces.

The Defence Forces offer a very rewarding and challenging career, which is why people join them. They provide people with opportunities they will not get in any other organisation. All personnel are given the opportunity to acquire professional skills through accredited courses. There are significant opportunities for advancement through promotion. While it is challenging, the opportunity to serve overseas is professionally rewarding and financially compensated. The Defence Forces have been challenged in terms of keeping highly qualified people as the economy grows, with increasing and more lucrative opportunities opening up in the private sector. This shows that the private sector looks to the Defence Forces for highly trained people. It is a concern and something about which I am very much aware.