Dáil debates

Thursday, 16 June 2016

12:00 pm

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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In January of this year, the former Minister, Deputy Kelly, announced the introduction of a new pay-by-weight billing system for bin customers. He made this announcement amid a lot of fanfare, as was his wont. His forecast was that 87% of customers would save money as a result of the new system but the exact opposite has turned out to be the case. It seems from the feedback being received by all Deputies that 87% of people will be paying much more. There has been a frenzy of coverage, showing examples of families which were paying €200 but will now have to pay €400. Some families which were paying €360 are being charged €611. Deputy Lahart is in correspondence with a family which was paying €420 but will now have to pay €770. There is a growing sense of anger and frustration around the country because those who are in line to be hit with these bills from 1 July are not being offered a means of dealing with this problem. They should be helped to find alternative services by shopping around and seeing what options are available. All of the companies are piling on these increases.

If action is not taken now, we will be facing into a very difficult summer. Families throughout the country will be facing very difficult situations. I am concerned that in such circumstances, waste will be disposed of illegally and difficulties will continue to arise. People with disabilities, older people and people with larger families are being hammered by the new regime and are concerned about the lack of information being given to them. The private companies that are increasing the standing charges are exploiting the Government's lack of preparation in order to profit from this situation. In one instance, the annual standing charge has been increased from €60 to €169. The additional burden that is being imposed on working families across the country is forcing them to add to the profits of these companies.

What is the Government proposing to do? We understand from today's Irish Examinerthat the Minister, Deputy Coveney, is proposing to take action on behalf of the Government. Will the Tánaiste outline here in the Chamber exactly what the Minister intends to do to stop these charges from proceeding? Will the Government agree to freeze these charges until people can realise where the savings are, or if the savings actually exist? Will the Tánaiste say whether she and her Government colleagues agree with the increased bin charges? Do they agree with companies profiteering from Government incompetence by adding to standing charges in the way they are doing in this city and this country today? Are they aware of and do they understand the level of anger and worry that exists regarding these charges?

12:05 pm

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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This is an issue about which the Government and I are concerned. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Simon Coveney, has asked the major waste collection companies to meet with him next week to discuss this, as well as other issues around the introduction of pay-by-weight. He will put it up to them to explain their justification for what is happening and for such significant price hikes.

This was never the spirit of the legislation. The change in the way this was to be done was about ensuring the principle of reduce and reuse was built into the system. It was never meant to be an excuse for hiking up charges. The Minister, in the first instance, will discuss this with the companies next week.

As Deputy Calleary said, these charges do not come into play until 1 July. However, the companies have begun sending out information which has clearly caused concern and upset to many of their customers and to consumers. We are concerned about this. The Minister will explore what action needs to be taken in the first instance next week when he meets those companies. I would stress that the whole change of pay-by-weight was intended to give households more control over their waste costs and to provide better value to those which prevent waste and recycle more. It is very much in accordance with the polluter pays principle. It was to stimulate the prevention of waste and create a more environmentally sustainable approach to the management of waste.

In terms of the approach to the issue, that is clearly what was behind the spirit of the legislation. It was certainly not intended to be an excuse to top up the basic charges which is what is being reported at present.

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste said this policy is intended to be good value. It is certainly not good value if one’s annual bill goes from €360 to €611 or from €420 to €770. It is certainly not good value if the standing charge is increased. The Tánaiste claimed there is still time to address this matter. However, most households have to pay that charge before their bins will be collected. There is two weeks to deal with this.

The Tánaiste said it was not the spirit of the legislation. It is a consequence, however, of badly drafted legislation which has a lacuna and which has given an opening to companies to profit from this policy. While the policy is a welcome change in attitude, it will crucify households, pensioners, disabled people and families across the country.

Families will be looking to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government’s meeting with the companies for results. If he does not get results, what will he do? Will he suspend the introduction of this measure until these companies see sense or will the Government go along with companies profiteering from families using the pay-by-weight system? We may have a new Government but the manner in which this pay-by-weight system is being introduced is the same incompetence that dragged us through Irish Water.

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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That is an incorrect analysis. The issue is how certain companies are behaving. This is a competitive market. If this is seen as taking advantage, the Minister will introduce regulations if necessary.

In the first instance, however, he is meeting with the companies next week and is dealing with this as an urgent issue. We accept it is an urgent issue. We do not wish to see consumers being exploited in any way in this change of policy to pay-by-weight. As I said, this policy was intended to reduce costs for householders and this was the spirit behind the legislation. We must ensure it works in that way because it would be right for the environment and for consumers if we reduce the cost for them in managing their waste. That was the intention and spirit behind the legislation. It was certainly not to see excessive and extra costs being put on consumers.

12:10 pm

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Of course, Fianna Fáil is correct to identify it as both a legacy issue and a contemporary issue of Government incompetence. It should, however, be pointed out to Fianna Fáil that it is the facilitator of this incompetence in government. But for its support, this incompetent crew would not be in a position to continue their incompetent governance.

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Sinn Féin is doing it in the North where the charge is £1,300 sterling.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Last January the then Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, at the stroke of a ministerial pen, introduced Statutory Instrument No. 24. He said at the time that this would mean that 90% of families and households would pay less to have their bin collected. Roll on a number of months and the truth emerges, with great panic, as the Tánaiste has acknowledged. It now transpires that up to 90% of families and households will, in fact, pay substantially more.

Let us look at some cases. Elaine is a mother of three children, has a chronically ill husband and is in receipt of carer's allowance. The cost of her bin collection service is increasing from €204 to €360 per year, a 76% increase. They cannot afford this. Marie is in her 80s, lives alone and is in receipt of the State pension. Her standing charge is being increased from €50 to €169 per year, an increase of 238%. She has told me money is so tight that she will have no choice but to either go without food or burn her rubbish illegally. Is there not something obscene about this for a senior citizen in 2016? As it happens, Marie is a constituent of the Tánaiste.

The Tánaiste said the Minister, Deputy Simon Coveney, would meet the providers and that he would put it up to them. I have to tell her that that does not inspire much confidence. What the Minister needs to do is to reverse this bad decision. The regulation was introduced at the stroke of a ministerial pen and could be removed at the stroke of a ministerial pen.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question, please.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister should today sign a new statutory instrument to remove this regulation which is going to cause so much hardship for families. The Tánaiste should dispense with the tea and sympathy and tell me whether the Minister will today or early next week sign a new statutory instrument to remove this threat of daylight robbery on the part of bin collectors of ordinary decent citizens.

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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It is not the Government which has introduced this charge; therefore, I do not accept the way the Deputy has framed the issue. It appears the companies are taking the opportunity presented by the new legislation to change the standing charges. What I have made very clear is that this is not acceptable to the Government; it is not acceptable to the Minister, Deputy Simon Coveney, and, if necessary, regulations will be introduced to assure and reassure consumers that charges will not go up in the way the Deputy has described. Not one person has yet been charged and it is the intention of the Government to ensure the legislation is not abused in any way. In its spirit it is the right direction to take and, in fact, will lead to lower charges for households. That is the intention behind the legislation. If it is being abused or exploited by private companies in what is a competitive market, what I am saying clearly to the Deputy is that the Minister will take action before 1 July when the new regime is due to come into place.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Tánaiste is dancing on the head of a pin when she says it is not the fault of the regulations but of crafty companies which are availing of the legislation in place. She should not waste our time with that nonsense. There are two options.

Either the Minister acts to bring forward a new regulation which he is perfectly capable of doing - it is our view in Sinn Féin that he should do so today - or, failing this, we avail of Seanad Standing Orders which give the Seanad the power to annul a statutory instrument within 21 sitting days of its signing by the Minister. As the Seanad has sat in a period of ten days since, Sinn Féin Senators have today submitted a motion to the Cathaoirleach of the Seanad to annul the statutory instrument and regulation. Either the Minister acts or next week Sinn Féin Senators will bring forward the motion to ensure the regulation is annulled. If it comes to this, I hope Fianna Fáil, Government Senators and others will support the motion. Sitting on our hands is not an option. The Minister talking tough is not an option. Either the Government acts or we will do so next week. Under no circumstances, come 1 July, will ordinary people be fleeced in the way the companies intend.

12:15 pm

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The people most affected do not need political theatrics; what they need is action. I have been very clear that the Minister will take action on this issue. Previously a total of 40% of the companies were charging by weight. Legislation is the right approach as it will reduce costs for most households. If it is being exploited, the matter will be dealt with. The Minister will meet the companies and introduce a regulation to deal with this issue.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Therefore, he will annul it.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I raise the very serious issue of overcrowding at South Tipperary General Hospital. It is sad that today HIQA has published a report which is very critical. It is not a problem with the staff or management who are overworked and totally overstretched. According to Trolley Watch, emergency department trolley statistics at South Tipperary General Hospital show that it has suffered the most because of the cuts of recent years. Figures from the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation show that in March there had been a 100% increase in the number of trolleys and the level of overcrowding nationally compared to the figures in March 2008, when only 4,700 patients were on trolleys. We need to bear in mind constantly that these statistics represent an old person, a sick child or a person with disabilities who are on trolleys in unsuitable surroundings. They are human beings and we must always treat them as such. The medical staff do their best for them. It is, therefore, truly disturbing to have it confirmed that the total number of patients on trolleys in South Tipperary General Hospital this year has increased to 552, 319 more than this time last year. It just gets worse.

Clearly, the establishment of the emergency department task force has done nothing to alleviate the problem. It is a high-powered task force and promises were made about what it would do, but things have got worse. I am glad that the Minister for Health is present. I ask him to look into this matter to see what the task force established by his predecessor is doing. People are being advised to visit their GPs, but GPs are overwhelmed, particularly since the introduction of the free scheme for those aged under six years. They cannot cope. They are on the front line and many of them are operating on 40 year old contracts which are not fit for purpose.

Despite the promises made three years ago that stepdown beds would be provided in Cashel, with almost €20 million spent, they are lying idle. Never mind beds, they do not have pillows or blankets to put on them. The facility could be used to alleviate the immediate problem and the standard of refurbishment is exceptionally. When will this happen? The former Minister of State, Mr. Tom Hayes, announced that it would and I am sure he did not make it up himself. Three years ago he was told by the HSE that it would happen, but nothing has. This cannot go on.

We can thank the former Minister of State, Ms Kathleen Lynch, for the closure of St. Michael's, a psychiatric institution of long-standing, which provided an excellent service in Clonmel on the same campus as the hospital. People must now travel to Kilkenny, and all the patients now present in the emergency department. The former Minister of State was warned about this and we were told other stepdown facilities and crisis accommodation would be provided, which we clearly do not have.

A Vision for Change is not working. I therefore ask the Tánaiste what she will do because the HIQA report is very damning, especially regarding patient safety. I ask the Tánaiste and the Minister beside her what action will be taken immediately.

12:20 pm

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I have read the summary of the HIQA report and I agree with the Deputy that some of the findings regarding South Tipperary General Hospital are extremely disturbing. I noted, however, that when the HIQA inspectors returned six weeks later they had found considerable improvement in some of the issues that had been identified when they first visited on an emergency basis. The Deputy is right, however, that there are serious infrastructure and capacity issues regarding demand at South Tipperary General Hospital. The important point is that we are entering a new era now of further investment in the health service, as evidenced by the extra €500 million that has been allocated to the Department of Health and to the Minister, Deputy Harris. There are improvements overall in the trolley situation but still a lot of work to be done. There is clearly more investment in the area of general practitioners and investment in primary care and it is important that this continues. It will deal to some degree with the infrastructural issues. New initiatives and new funding have gone into the fair deal scheme, which has meant that patients now only have to wait a very short period of two to four weeks for a bed, reduced from 14 weeks just over a year ago.

Improvements are therefore being made, but the Minister has indicated that he intends to address the general issues that the Deputy raises about infrastructure. Clearly, however, there are also management and accountability issues, as evidenced by the HIQA report, that need to be taken up at a local level. I note, for example, that some of the issues that were identified concerned the risks relating to infection prevention and hygiene, with very poor cleansing of equipment around some patient areas and stained, dusty and rusty rubbish bins in some of the surgical wards, and the paediatric ward was not clean. Some of these issues can be dealt with via proper management and accountability from hospital groups. The Deputy makes the point about investment and infrastructure in the hospital. The Minister has said he plans to focus on the issue of capital investment in hospitals that need infrastructural development and he now has the resources to begin to do that. There will be a capital review, as the Deputy knows, in the near future, and the issues he raises can be considered then.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I hope the Minister will address the matter. The money was promised as part of the talks for the programme for Government. I look forward to the roll-out of this. Nobody will condone or accept bad practices and unclean places, especially in a hospital. HIQA has accused South Tipperary General Hospital of putting patients at risk because of unacceptable practices such as lack of access to oxygen, lack of space - which I see any time I am there, and I am called in there regularly - trolley overcrowding and similar issues. There is no physical space. The staff are at their wits' end and the nurses are under enormous pressure. They are no longer in the reception area because they have been moved into wards, of which there are fewer and fewer. The hospital only has a certain number of beds. It is an old hospital and has done Trojan work. We need infrastructural investment and we need it now, and we need support for the management and staff there. As I said, nobody will condone any poor trolley practices. Sick patients cannot be nursed on long corridors out into the foyer and such places, with no dignity and no privacy. I see this happening every week..

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I also note, as the Deputy says, the capacity issues, and the Minister accepts that there are legitimate capacity issues in the hospital. It has in fact been experiencing high occupancy rates since January. It is a question of reinvestment and the fact that our hospitals need further capital investment. Thankfully, because of the changes in our economy, we are now in a position to do that, and I am sure that South Tipperary General Hospital will be one of the hospitals that will benefit from the improved economic situation and the reinvestment in our health service.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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There is a lot of talk about new politics in this Dáil and many of us are wondering what exactly it means. From my point of view it means more collaboration or trying to seek consensus between different parties and different sides of the House. In the Dáil reform committee meetings one of the aspects to which we returned many times was the recommendation contained in the OECD report on how we budget and how we spend our money or allocate the spending of our money.

The Tánaiste will be aware that the OECD report said the Parliament needed to be involved at every stage, have access to information in a timely manner and be involved in the decision-making process before the real decisions are taken. Maybe we would not have so many problems, such as the waste charge issue today, if everybody was involved from the earliest stage in examining whether a certain regulation would work. This is not insignificant but it affects everything. The process of how we do budgets and work together in framing them is very important.

I was very heartened when the Taoiseach, in response to a question on the Order of Business a few weeks ago, said there was a vital role for the committees, which we are establishing this week, in the process and that we had to get working this June and July rather than wait until autumn to adopt the OECD practices, which are good practices. The scoping committee on the budget scrutiny process met yesterday. We had a useful meeting in which the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Pascal Donohoe, acknowledged that we had to begin now, not wait for a 2018 process. On the question whether Government Departments would be able to present their bid proposals for the 2017 budget to the new committees this month and next month, the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, said we should begin the process now in terms of involving the Parliament in considering the options, where we might save money somewhere and spend it elsewhere.

The Minister, Deputy Donohoe, said he would contact his colleagues. I apologise for springing the following question on the Tánaiste before the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, has had a chance to talk to her. Will the Tánaiste and her Department be able, at the end of this month or next month, after the national economic dialogue or the Estimates process we are going through - I see the Tánaiste's Estimate here for this year - to present to the new committee some of the spending or saving proposals she may have to ensure the Parliament is involved properly in the 2017 budget process?

12:30 pm

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The sort of process the Deputy has outlined is very much one in which we want to engage and every effort is being directed towards it. It involves consultation, discussion and sharing as much information on the budgetary process as possible in advance. There will be an opportunity for Opposition leaders and others to be involved in the national dialogue at the end of this month. The budget scoping committee is considering precisely the issues the Deputy has raised. While the budget scoping committee will have to work out the timing issues regarding presentations by Departments, it is our intention, in so far as possible. Most Departments are still identifying priorities for 2017. The intention is to bring the discussion to the committees and have the opportunity to hear everybody's views on how the priorities will be identified and budgeted for in the 2017 Estimates.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I thank the Tánaiste. I do not want to jump her into something she has not agreed at Cabinet but to consider it on a personal level, in her Department. There is probably political consensus that we need extra gardaí or that we need community policing. While all the Tánaiste's priorities or spending commitments for 2017 might not yet be in place, does she think she would be ready to go to a committee in July and outline some of the priorities she might want to present to her Cabinet colleagues in the budget process? It could help the Tánaiste, and all of us, if we are more honest and open about the various options. Given that we cannot spend on everything, a balancing act is needed. The more open and honest we are about it, the less we will get involved in the kind of dog fights that happened here today about issues such as waste and water in which the Parliament was involved only after the fact.

She should get her colleagues on the justice committee that will be set up to help her to consider those spending options. Will she able to do that in July just for her own Department?

12:35 pm

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Next week we will discuss the 2016 justice Estimates in the House. I was clear with Cabinet and, indeed, with the House about the priorities that I have in respect of the need to support the work An Garda Síochána is doing at present, particularly in tackling gangland crime, but the programme of Government outlines clearly our priorities. There is no intention to do other than what the Deputy has described on the part of Ministers and the Government. I will be in a position in respect of my Department to outline key priorities but, of course, that process will take a number of months. However, with regard to the initial discussions, I am sure Ministers will appear before committees shortly. The budgetary committee is working out the exact processes and how it is intended for those discussions to proceed. We will get guidelines from that committee and I have no doubt everybody will engage in a proactive way around that.