Dáil debates

Tuesday, 20 October 2015

Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions

Garda Investigations

2:50 pm

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

107. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality for an update on the independent review mechanism; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [35255/15]

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I heard the Minister's reply to Deputy Collins on this issue. As she knows, more than 200 of these cases came through Justice4all and we have met these people. To date, how this has all been handled has been an abysmal disappointment for them. The Minister described this as a totally objective process. By any international standards I do not know how she has the neck to describe it so.

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I can describe it as independent because it is independent. It is an independent review mechanism carried out by independent lawyers who are given access to the data they require and to the material submitted by the complainants. In more than 200 cases extra material has been given by the complainants. The material has been assessed and a recommendation has been made. The summary of this recommendation which came to me was overseen by a judge. I call this independent. I have accepted the recommendations in all the cases.

It is not a statutory investigation. It is not a commission of investigation. It was never intended to be a commission of investigation. It is an assessment of complaints, many of which go back 30, 20 and ten years, and some are more recent. They have been through a variety of assessments by gardaí, the District Court, the Circuit Courts right up to the Supreme Court. They have examined the papers to see if they can recommend any particular further action to me in my role as Minister which would help the complainants and bring closure for them, because obviously many of these cases involve appalling events for the families concerned. If there is any further action I can take to help them based on the recommendations I receive from the independent review mechanism, I will do that.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What the Minister describes as an independent panel was hand-picked with no terms of reference. It is outrageous to call it independent. There is no opportunity for people to engage and no feedback. There is no recourse to appeal. One case was referred by the Taoiseach to the independent review mechanism. This involved the shooting of a civilian, where the Garda who witnessed it was told to say he was not there. The person involved has not even been asked about the shooting. How will the panel make a recommendation if it has not even asked a question? I do not understand this part. Initially, the Minister said this would be returned in September 2014 but it has dragged on for another 13 months with bugger all satisfaction. It does not look as if the Minister has a political appetite for dealing properly with these cases. The people are bitterly disappointed with how it has been handled.

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is familiar with many of these cases and knows the complexities involved and the appalling experience which many people have had. We are trying to see whether there is any further remedy which could be made available to the people who have submitted these complaints. This is the task this group of independent professional lawyers has been asked to assess. This is the reality of the situation. The Deputy quoted an individual case. Every complainant has had the opportunity to give the details. I am sure the complainant about whom the Deputy spoke has had the opportunity to give the full details of his complaint to the independent review mechanism. I would be very surprised if people did not give to the independent review mechanism the full details they have at their disposal. In more than 200 cases people have given further information, and where those conducting the independent assessment have wanted further information from the Garda or the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, in all cases it has been complied with by An Garda Síochána. There is no instance of information being refused by An Garda Síochána to the independent review mechanism. This is the fact of the situation. I accept the point that it will be very difficult for many people to find resolution.

If there is a mechanism open to me and it is recommended by the independent review mechanism, in all instances I will accept the recommendation, whatever it is.

2:55 pm

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thought the Deputy had finished but we are over time anyway.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We all admit that some of the cases were clearly of a more serious nature than others. It would not have been rocket science for people to have gone through them quickly early in the process to pick out the most serious in order that they could have been put before a commission of investigation. They could even have been included with the examination of the Maurice McCabe issue. Perhaps it is planned to do that down the road but given that it is almost a year and a half since this was set up, it is difficult to see where the Minister is going with it. It is difficult to see where people can possibly find any solace at all in how the process has been handled. Does the Minister have any concept of how disappointed these people are? It beggars belief how this has been handled.

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy mentions doing a quick assessment but if I had asked the independent review panel to do that, we would have a series of different questions. It has taken every case on equal merit and assessed them. As the Deputy well knows, once we start to assess any of these cases, different factors emerge. The Deputy mentioned that we could say what is serious and what is not, but that emerges in the course of the 300 overall assessments. The bottom line is that detailed time and attention has been given to every case. Where there is the possibility of further-----

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

How did the Government think it would be finished in September 2014?

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister, without interruption.

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government decided to establish an independent body because more than 300 cases were referred. As the Government decided to accept all the referred cases, it has led to a longer period for consideration, as I explained before. We were right to take that time. The process is coming to a conclusion and I will publish a full report on all the detail, including the percentage of cases where there were recommendations and the range of those recommendations. If there is a request for a commission of investigation into the cases, I will establish one.