Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach when the last meeting of the National Security Committee was held; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4296/15]

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach the number of meetings of the National Security Committee that have taken place in the past 12 months; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4297/15]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.

Having regard to the confidential nature of the work of the National Security Committee, it would not be appropriate to disclose information on the dates of individual meetings or its proceedings. The committee is chaired by the Secretary General to the Government and comprises representatives at the highest level of the Departments of Justice and Equality, Defence and Foreign Affairs and Trade, An Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces. It is concerned with ensuring the Government and I are advised of high level security issues and the responses to them but not with operational security matters. It meets as required and will continue to do so. In addition to its meetings, its members liaise on an ongoing basis to monitor developments that might have national security implications, in particular, in the international arena.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Taoiseach for that answer and do appreciate the need for discretion. However, in our experience of the British security and intelligence systems, the ways in which secrecy can be abused, decisions and actions taken are at odds with democratic norms and values and adversely impact on the lives of citizens are now a part of our history. I am not suggesting that could happen here, although when there is no accountability, there is the potential for such abuses to occur. The British state infamously collaborated in the killing of hundreds of citizens, including in this state. Its intelligence agencies collected and I have no doubt still collect millions of pieces of information on ordinary citizens across the island. The British are not alone in this. The United States was caught spying on most European states, which are its allies. It was interesting to see that at the beginning of this month the US Senate passed a Bill to end bulk collection of millions of Americans' telephone records. That was the consequence of the courageous actions of Edward Snowden, the US National Security Agency whistleblower. His information confirmed that the US Government, without obtaining court warrants, had routinely collected telephone logs of tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions, of Americans who had no link whatsoever with subversion or violent groups.

I raise these matters as an illustration of the danger that secret intelligence gathering practices can lead to illegality and human rights abuses. This must be balanced with the need of the State to protect citizens.

According to The Irish Times, a draft Government White Paper, which was to be presented to the Cabinet this morning, details concerns expected to arise over the next ten years, including cyber attacks, organised crime and potential threats from events in Libya, Iraq and Syria. Are there any mechanisms for oversight and what are they? Does the national security committee have any oversight role in the gathering of information and surveillance by the various intelligence-led sections of the Garda Síochána and the director of military intelligence? Does it have any responsibility for decisions over what citizens could or should be targets of surveillance? I do not know if this is true but it was reported ten years ago that the Garda Síochána requested clearance to examine 10,000 telephone records of citizens. Does the national security committee have a role in this? Does it have to clear it and does it have any oversight over such actions? What is the relationship of the national security committee with other intelligence agencies? For example, does it share or authorise the sharing of intelligence information with the British or other European Governments or with the USA?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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For obvious reasons, I do not propose to describe the discussions that were held by the committee. It does, however, cover the range of relevant security issues, including dissident activity in Northern Ireland and the international terrorist threat here. Dissident activity in Northern Ireland is clearly of great interest to the Executive in Northern Ireland and to the Government and ordinary people here. I assume the party of Deputy Adams supports the issue of dealing with dissident republican activity within Stormont.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We support it here as well, Taoiseach.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I appreciate that and I thank Deputy Adams for his confirmation. Ireland cannot consider itself immune from international terrorist threats and the level of threat from this source is kept under constant review by the Garda Síochána, particularly in light of changes that take place in the current international climate. There is no specific information on any threat to this country from international terrorism but we will focus on any other measures that can be taken to prevent an attack such as that in Tunisia.

The Garda authorities and the Garda Commissioner will work very closely with their international security and intelligence counterparts in counteracting any threat and they take appropriate operational measures where needed. I do not have access to the detail of what those operational measures might be. The activities of a small number of people based in Ireland and whose behaviour may be of concern in this regard will continue to be monitored closely and regularly. This country also contributes actively to the actions that have been brought forward at EU level by the justice and home affairs Ministers to support the work of member states in counteracting the threat from terrorism, and these include actions to address the foreign fighter phenomenon and to combat violent radicalisation. We also engage with international partners, including the United States, the Council of Europe and the United Nations, in efforts to combat ongoing terrorism and radicalisation.

The Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) (Amendment) Act 2015 was enacted here on 8 June and further strengthens Ireland's laws to address the international terrorist phenomenon. It contains three offences, namely, public provocation to commit terrorist offences, recruitment for terrorism and training for terrorism. These offences carry penalties of ten years' imprisonment on conviction and on indictment and are especially pertinent to the nature of the current challenges presented by international terrorism given that there is clear evidence across Europe of people who are engaged in the radicalisation of others. I listened to the father of the person who was the main perpetrator of the murders on the beaches in Tunisia and there seemed to have been a total change in the young man's nature and personality. The legislation here complements the State's existing body of counterterrorism law, including the Offences Against the State Act and the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act 2005.

The Government has given priority to this issue. During Ireland's recent Presidency of the Council of the European Union, we were successful in gaining the agreement of member states to review the EU strategy for counter-radicalisation and recruitment to terrorism. Work is continuing on this matter at various levels within the European Union and Ireland participates in that. One of the issues that needs to be addressed in that review is how best to manage the phenomenon known as foreign fighters. Ireland is also a member of a group of like-minded states established during the Irish Presidency to develop a response to this issue. The Minister for Justice and Equality has met her EU colleagues with a view to building momentum behind a range of efforts to resolve this particular issue. In 2014, we co-sponsored the United Nations Security Council Resolution 2198, which set out a series of measures to address the growing problem of international terrorism, including the foreign fighter phenomenon and international radicalisation. Earlier this year, we also participated actively in the negotiation of an additional protocol to the Council of Europe's Convention on the Prevention of Terrorism in 2005 which is aimed at countering foreign fighters.

This country is very much in tune with the threat, and the committee, chaired by the Secretary General to the Government, engages regularly with its members. Gardaí regularly monitor the threat and take whatever operational measures they deem appropriate to deal with any indication that something is about to happen.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In light of the horrific and brutal murders in Tunisia, there clearly is a need for the national security committee to meet quite regularly because surveillance works. There is another side to the equation and while I understand the balance between surveillance and privacy rights for citizens, the most fundamental obligation of Government is to protect its citizens and that means proper surveillance and proper intelligence. I question whether we have the capacity we require in light of the threats that are emerging through ISIS and radical Islamic fundamentalists. This is an attack on our civilisation such as we have not quite had before in its widespread and random nature. It can happen in any city in the world, from Sydney to Paris to a beach in Tunisia. Unfortunately, one of the prices citizens have to pay to enhance our protection is to have robust surveillance and intelligence. If people have alternatives to this I would like to hear them.

We rely a lot on international intelligence and we need to take stock of our own internal capacity to determine how safe Ireland is from an ISIS attack. That is a significant point which I do not make in any accusative or political way. It is an obvious question to ask, given the absolutely random way in which these people go about their horrid deeds. There is no great sophistication in a young man walking along a beach with a Kalashnikov rifle and just mowing down innocent people who are on holiday.

That creates a whole new security surveillance-intelligence paradigm the likes of which we have never really had to deal with. That is the point I am making to the Taoiseach.

I remember the national security meetings and their regularity, particularly in the context of this particular threat which can happen at any time, anywhere and with the most random of measures. As a former Minister for Foreign Affairs, I saw how surveillance and intelligence worked. I know the number of times I was briefed by security forces. I know that the Minister for Foreign Affairs would be briefed on dissident threats, for example, and that criminals operating in the North with bombs that were twice the size of the one in Omagh have been intercepted at the 11th hour. God knows what would have happened if those bombs and bombing missions were not thwarted at the 11th hour by the security forces and the Garda working with the PSNI.

There is a balance to be struck. I do not believe in mass targeting of citizens' information or anything like that. One needs intelligent intelligence, if one likes, and targeted approaches. However, surveillance and intelligence protects lives. In Northern Ireland, down through the years, there were some appalling acts of counter-intelligence, collusion and all of that. On the other hand, there was intelligence that saved lives. Right up to the present day, Northern Ireland intelligence and surveillance saves lives.

The ISIS threat is the most serious we have encountered in recent times. I do not have all the answers to it but the sheer random nature of it necessitates more frequent meetings of the National Security Committee and, perhaps, an assessment of our capacity to deal with it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not think anyone would disagree with the comments of Deputy Martin. Intelligence and information is critical to saving lives and preventing incidents of terrorism or extremism which is why, when speaking to the British Prime Minister this morning, I said to him that we will co-operate with the British Government in respect of interception of communications where that applies, but that it would be within the confines of the law. Deputy Martin is well aware of the close co-operation between the Garda and the PSNI and the evidence that it has prevented incidents on both sides of the Border. The level of co-operation remains very high and there is clearly a level of sharing of intelligence, which I know Deputy Martin supports. The Garda have met their counterparts at a European level and are very conscious of this issue.

Do we hear remarks about this country being used as a hub for transit to other locations of these so-called foreign fighters? There is no evidence that Ireland is a transit hub for extremists. As a small number of people who belong to a particular group are here, if there are any indications in their activities of involvement or an inclination in that regard, they are closely monitored by the Garda. It is important to say that the vast majority of those religious groups who are here want to go about their lives in the ordinary way and practise their genuine religious beliefs.

We do not have any evidence, given to the committee, of this country being used as a hub for terrorist activities. The current approach by the EU, in which we participate, is focused on four areas: enhanced information sharing between police and intelligence services, which is the point Deputy Martin raised; dealing with online radicalisation; engagement with third states used by foreign fighters to access Syria and Iraq, notably in this case Turkey; and improved controls to counteract illicit firearms. The European internal security strategy concentrates on a number of priority areas in tackling terrorism. They include the establishment of a European counter-terrorism centre within EUROPOL; disrupting organised crime, which included supporting legislation to make it more difficult for criminals to abuse financial systems; and fighting cybercrime, focusing on identifying high risk areas here and working with the private sector to identify vulnerabilities and close loopholes and the provision of specialised training. In this context the Government recently approved the national cyber-security strategy, which will be led by the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. The priority areas also include dealing with online radicalisation, including launching an EU level forum with the IT companies to bring them into contact with civil law, civil society and law enforcement agencies with a view to countering online extremist propaganda. The authorities here have met social media companies and organisations with a view to looking at that issue. Officials from the Department of Justice and Equality and members of the Garda travelled and met the major social media companies to identify ways the public and the private sector can work to address this particular matter. It is an issue of concern to everyone. From the Garda point of view and the committee's point of view, this is a high level priority and continues to be monitored very closely.