Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

In light of the horrific and brutal murders in Tunisia, there clearly is a need for the national security committee to meet quite regularly because surveillance works. There is another side to the equation and while I understand the balance between surveillance and privacy rights for citizens, the most fundamental obligation of Government is to protect its citizens and that means proper surveillance and proper intelligence. I question whether we have the capacity we require in light of the threats that are emerging through ISIS and radical Islamic fundamentalists. This is an attack on our civilisation such as we have not quite had before in its widespread and random nature. It can happen in any city in the world, from Sydney to Paris to a beach in Tunisia. Unfortunately, one of the prices citizens have to pay to enhance our protection is to have robust surveillance and intelligence. If people have alternatives to this I would like to hear them.

We rely a lot on international intelligence and we need to take stock of our own internal capacity to determine how safe Ireland is from an ISIS attack. That is a significant point which I do not make in any accusative or political way. It is an obvious question to ask, given the absolutely random way in which these people go about their horrid deeds. There is no great sophistication in a young man walking along a beach with a Kalashnikov rifle and just mowing down innocent people who are on holiday.

That creates a whole new security surveillance-intelligence paradigm the likes of which we have never really had to deal with. That is the point I am making to the Taoiseach.

I remember the national security meetings and their regularity, particularly in the context of this particular threat which can happen at any time, anywhere and with the most random of measures. As a former Minister for Foreign Affairs, I saw how surveillance and intelligence worked. I know the number of times I was briefed by security forces. I know that the Minister for Foreign Affairs would be briefed on dissident threats, for example, and that criminals operating in the North with bombs that were twice the size of the one in Omagh have been intercepted at the 11th hour. God knows what would have happened if those bombs and bombing missions were not thwarted at the 11th hour by the security forces and the Garda working with the PSNI.

There is a balance to be struck. I do not believe in mass targeting of citizens' information or anything like that. One needs intelligent intelligence, if one likes, and targeted approaches. However, surveillance and intelligence protects lives. In Northern Ireland, down through the years, there were some appalling acts of counter-intelligence, collusion and all of that. On the other hand, there was intelligence that saved lives. Right up to the present day, Northern Ireland intelligence and surveillance saves lives.

The ISIS threat is the most serious we have encountered in recent times. I do not have all the answers to it but the sheer random nature of it necessitates more frequent meetings of the National Security Committee and, perhaps, an assessment of our capacity to deal with it.

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