Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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187. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the unions he plans meeting for talks on public sector pay. [18244/15]

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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My question concerns the unions which he plans to meet and those participating in the talks. I raise this issue with the Minister because I wish to know specifically what will be the nature and level of engagement with the unions of the Defence Forces, An Garda Síochána and the psychiatric nurses and those they represent.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will cut to the chase and not give the Deputy the preamble in the prepared answer. As has been the case in all previous discussions, including those leading up to the Haddington Road agreement, my invitation was issued to the officers of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. I have also made arrangements for the participation of the associations representing public servants in the Defence Forces and An Garda Síochána. In addition to the formal talks process, I have met and am continuing to engage with the representatives of public service pensioners where matters under discussion impact on their positions also.

I am not in a position to predict when the talks will conclude, but early agreement would facilitate the preparation for the budget for any pay recovery that might be agreed. The Deputy is aware that I am required to review the FEMPI Acts. The next review is due before the end of June. In this context, I would like to be in a position to update the Houses at that time.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister might set out for us the modalities for those rounds of talks. It is logical that the first port of call be the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, but some bodies fall outside its umbrella. How does the Minister propose to co-ordinate and keep a level of coherence in the negotiations? Bear in mind those workers who are reliant on the family income supplement, FIS. Many of those whom I have met are members of the Defence Forces. Is it not astonishing that we congratulate ourselves for our work with the UN and we applaud members of the Defence Forces when some of them rely on FIS? When one boils things down, this is what is thought of their efforts.

How will the talks be kept coherent? Who are the specific officials that the Minister has charged with this task?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is not normal for individual officials to be named in the House in that way and I do not propose to break with that pattern. An array of officials - 15 plus - will be involved in the talks. Also, officials from all line Departments that are involved will be co-opted to the task as well as the economics evaluation unit within my Department, which will crunch the numbers in support of the talks.

Regarding the process, I deal formally and directly with ICTU. The public sector committee of the congress will be the formal interlocutor, but we and it will have parallel discussions with the others that I mentioned.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister will appreciate that I was not inviting him to name individual officials, but it would be helpful for us to have a sense of who from within the system was charged with carrying forward the negotiations. That was my point. Perhaps the Minister might tell us how many officials will be involved. He stated that there would be 15 from his Department, but how many might be involved when the line Departments and others are included?

The Minister mentioned June as a possible date for updating the House. He has not told us much about the mandate that he has given his officials, although I have concluded that there is no specific emphasis on the low paid in the public sector. What form or shape does he hope will be arrived at for the agreement? I assume that he has in mind a single, all-encompassing agreement.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Yes. Haddington Road was a single encompassing agreement endorsed by the Labour Relations Commission, LRC. I expect the LRC to be involved in the talks at the appropriate time so that its imprimatur and skill set is available to the process.

The numbers will vary. Obviously, everyone from the official and trade union sides will not be in the room at the same time. The way it will work is that there will be formal negotiations, break-out groups and report-back groups. I remember speaking to the full gathering during the Haddington Road process. There was a very large contingent of people. One could not have a negotiation on that basis. There will be small sets of people doing direct negotiations, reporting back to larger groups, getting mandates for individual positions etc. I hope that we will advance the process in this way.

Maybe I am being optimistic but, before bringing my report on FEMPI to the House at the end of June, I would like to know where we stand on an agreement. I would like to be in that position, but it may not prove possible.