Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I want to raise a situation that is essentially a matter of life and death for a number of people in this country. In particular, I have been approached by Mr. John Duggan from Meath and people representing Ms Mary Gorman from Ballinakill, both of whom have been denied Soliris, a drug therapy which can have a dramatic impact on patients with a rare blood disorder.

The condition, that affects quite a small number of people globally, is paroxysmal nocturnal haemoglobinuria, PNH. It is a rare acquired blood disorder which is severely life-threatening. Some 35% of patients will die within five years of diagnosis and 70% of patients will end up with end-stage renal failure. It is a very serious issue for those concerned.

The clinicians involved, in particular, Dr. Philip Murphy, consultant haematologists in Beaumont, has written to Mr. Duggan. He has consulted both Professor Peter Hillmen, the leading United Kingdom expert, and Professor Paul Browne, who state that this drug is essential for such patients and John should be in treatment with this drug therapy, Soliris.

In 2010, it was decided that ten patients with this condition would get the drug and ten patients, since 2010, are in treatment under the drug therapy, but over the past two years new patients coming onto the scene are being denied the drug by the authorities. As Dr. Philip Murphy stated in his letter to John, there is a strong moral, ethical argument that the HSE should agree to fund the Soliris therapy.

Ms Mary Gorman had to go on "Today with Seán O'Rourke" to highlight her case because she has been left for two years with no treatment to control her disease even though medical experts want her to be treated appropriately. She has had to give up her job. She has been subject to fire-fighting interventions, such as frequent blood transfusions. She is now severely restricted.

The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence, known as NICE, in the United Kingdom has issued guidance on this drug, stating that its impact is a step-change in the treatment of this condition, that it offers patients the possibility of avoiding end-stage renal failure, dialysis and kidney transplantation as well as other organ damage, and that the analysis from all sides indicates that the substantial quality-of-life gains made are of a magnitude rarely seen for any new drug treatment.

By any yardstick, it is unacceptable that these individuals have been left without access to this drug. I acknowledge it is a very expensive drug, but it is not the Taoiseach's role and the Government's role to play God with people's lives. I say that sincerely because if these cases were not raised in the public domain, we would not be having this debate.

I put it to the Taoiseach that the defence of the Minister last evening, that it is a matter for others and not the Minister, is not acceptable. Ten patients are already on this drug. The authorities have approved it for ten patients, but a decision has been made not to give it to Ms Gorman and Mr. Duggan, and I would like to know why. How can we in this society state some citizens are more equal than others?

Last night the Minister stated that the €1 million involved could do a lot of other things. The bottom line is it can do a lot of other things but in this instance, it can save two lives and dramatically transform their quality of life. I ask the Taoiseach to cut through the bureaucracy and get this issue sorted, and facilitate access to this life-saving drug therapy for those concerned, who need it and whose clinicians state it is essential that they get it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Martin for raising this sensitive and personal matter. I have no intention of attempting, as he stated, "to play God". It is neither my function nor, obviously, within my authority. I can understand the situation here for the people who he mentions.

Deputy Martin stated that a decision has been made not to provide treatment by this drug for the patients involved here. A decision was made to have a pilot scheme of ten patients and ten patients were nominated, I assume, through medical or clinical channels for that.

I understand that the cost here is in excess of €200,000 per person. Obviously, it is a very expensive drug. It is not the first expensive drug. In proportion, we have had similar ones for cystic fibrosis, and there is the cure now for hepatitis C. These also are expensive drugs in proportion, with a significant backlog in many of those cases.

This matter was raised yesterday by Deputy Helen McEntee here in the House as a Topical Issue and was responded to by the Minister for Health. My understanding is that representatives of the company involved were here for a couple of days and have had discussions with the Health Service Executive.

I am not privy to the outcome of those discussions. The opportunity exists to see what can be done in the cases of the two people mentioned by Deputy Martin, or others who are in the same category. The Deputy will be aware that it is never the intention of the Minister, the Department or the HSE to attempt to deliberately rule anybody out for treatment that can affect their lives for the better or in some cases is virtually a matter of being able to have a longer life than might be expected. As I understand it, those discussions have not concluded. In fairness, they do want to see the outcome of the pilot scheme that is currently under way with the drug involved at its current cost.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It will be too late.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is a matter of which the Minister is well aware. Yesterday, he responded on the matter to Deputy McEntee and for the information of the House. Arising from the Topical Issue that was raised, I would like to think the discussions that were under way between the HSE and the drugs company in question might be able to go a little further. I would like to think the people Deputy Martin mentioned and others who are caught in this particular problem could be facilitated. Unfortunately, there are so many other areas of equal priority in people's lives for access to drugs of proportionate cost who look for the same facility. I have no intention of attempting to say one person can have access to a drug and another person cannot.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Taoiseach is the boss.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Taoiseach should do something about it. He has money for museums and roads.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is only a certain allocation one can make. A pilot programme was introduced for ten people to see the effect of the drug treatment on the quality of their lives. I will bring the matter raised to the Minister's attention, as it was brought to his attention by Deputy McEntee yesterday evening.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That answer is simply not good enough. The Taoiseach is the boss.

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin was the boss at one time also.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In 2010, Fine Gael Deputies rightly raised the issue of this drug therapy in the Dáil with the then Tánaiste and Minister, former Deputy Mary Harney. According to the letter from Dr. Philip Murphy, he said that initially the HSE agreed to fund ten patients with PNH but despite attempts by him to get the funding agreed in the past two to three years, he recently had correspondence from Shaun Flanagan, chief pharmacist of the HSE, to the effect that he is not in a position to fund eculizumab therapy for any more PNH patients at present. It is a funding issue.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It is as simple as that.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not, as the Minister tried to indicate last night, to do with the efficacy of the drug. There is no issue with the efficacy of the drug according to the leading clinicians in this area around the world. What is happening is that the position has hardened in the past two to three years in the health area, and for innovative drug therapies. The consequence of that is that two citizens of whom I know, and there may be a third or fourth, are being denied drug therapy of which ten other citizens have been availing for the past three years. That is not acceptable on equality grounds. It is a life and death issue. There will be extra costs on the HSE when renal failure, thrombosis or the other side effects of this particular condition occur. Extra costs will also result from the regular blood transfusions that will become more frequent as the condition deteriorates. In one case, a person has had to leave her job because of the failure to enable her to avail of this particular therapy.

This is a funding issue. I mentioned the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence, NICE, in the UK, which is not known to be flaithiúlach in its approval of new drug therapies, but the institute is clear that the drug therapy in question is a step change in treatment for this rare condition and disorder. It is about time the Minister took responsibility and stopped hiding behind other authorities such as the HSE when it is a matter of life and death. The matter is urgent because the longer it goes on, the higher the risks become in terms of something very serious happening to the people concerned.

The reason I raise the issue is because I want to see action arising from today.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The story has changed in the past eight to nine days. Senator Thomas Byrne was told in the Seanad last week that the discussions with the drug company had ended and there was some drug company bashing. We do not need any of that. We need the Minister to take an approach that is hard-nosed, with his sleeves rolled up to ensure that patients can have access to a drug therapy that can transform their lives. Once they are on the drug therapy, their lifespan would be equal to any normal situation.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I would like to think we could live in a country whereby these situations would not have to arise in the first place. I would like to think that people who suffer from life threatening ailments, be they cancer, a heart condition or whatever else, could receive treatment, drug treatment and medical attention much more quickly.

In response to Deputy McEntee's question yesterday evening the Minister pointed out that, as the Dáil is well aware, the Health Service Executive has statutory responsibility for decisions on pricing and the reimbursement of medical products under the existing community drugs scheme. As Deputy Martin is well aware, the drug is for the treatment of people such as Mr. Duggan with PNH and it is considered to be one of the most expensive drugs in the world.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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What price is a life?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Alexion Pharma is the company responsible for the drug. It has been engaged for some time in trying to arrive at a price that would assist the HSE in its desire to fund this medicine for people who need it. The HSE has been very adamant about that. The company is not that easy to deal with. We would like to think that this measure could be accommodated within the resources available. That is the reason, given the responsibility the HSE has for drug pricing and reimbursement, it must engage properly with the company producing the drug. My understanding is that the price being offered at the moment would involve the medicine in question costing €420,000 per annum for each additional patient that is treated. It is one of the most expensive drugs in the world. One cannot put a price on a life but the Health Service Executive and the Department have a responsible position to engage with Alexion Pharma to get the best deal possible for taxpayers but more fundamentally for the patients who need such treatment. The discussions between Alexion Pharma and the HSE have concluded and the HSE is now considering the outcome of those discussions and of that engagement. It is regrettable-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It is always the same old answers.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----that the company has not been able to provide the drug at a more sustainable price to the Health Service Executive to reflect the clinical evidence we know exists.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Bash the drugs companies.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I would have thought such a company, given that we have a pilot programme for ten people-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not a pilot programme. That is a misnomer. One either has a clinical trial or not.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach should be allowed to conclude.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is about ten lives as well and I cannot discriminate or make a decision-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is doing so. Ten people are on the drug and two are not. That is discrimination.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It is naked discrimination.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The Taoiseach is doing so.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I cannot make a decision between one life and another. As Deputy Martin said, I am not acting here-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Two hundred people in the UK are on the drug therapy. What we are getting in response from the Taoiseach is not good enough.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry but we must conclude the matter.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If Deputy Martin wants to make political points about what he says is a matter of life and death, then he should continue to do so.

The Health Service Executive, quite rightly, has engaged with Alexion Pharma, the company who produced this drug. It is a drug that has given great comfort, ease and extension of life to people-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Two people need it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It costs €420,000 extra per annum, per patient. The Health Service Executive is right to engage with the drugs company because it is the body that must deal with drug pricing and reimbursement for drugs. The HSE has concluded those negotiations. In view of the fact that this matter was raised by Deputy McEntee, Alexion Pharma-----

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It was also raised by Senator Thomas Byrne in the Seanad.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----should listen to the points that have been made in the House and perhaps it might arrive at a more acceptable price regime so this medicine could be available not just to the two people referred to by the Deputy nor solely to the ten people on the pilot programme, but to others who are in this category. I hope that Alexion Pharma listens to the voices raised in the Parliament today.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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So it is their fault.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Order, please.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Caithfidh mé a rá go n-aontaím le ceannaire Fhianna Fáil ar an gceist deireanach sin agus le Teachta McEntee fosta. Mar a dúirt an Taoiseach, is ceist airgid é.

Given that the Taoiseach has explained that this question of medical aid to these two citizens is a question of money, I ask him again if he will support the proposal for a European debt conference. The Tánaiste has said that this initiative has merit. The Taoiseach may recall that yesterday I asked him to reflect overnight on the proposal. I understand the Government's current narrative which is all about the next election. I am sure all of the Front Bench will be making a super-duper effort to get on message and to avoid the serial debacles and controversies of last year. In the run-in to the election, Government-speak will be all about how the sacrifice of our people is now being rewarded, that recovery is under way, that it is fragile, that not everyone is feeling the benefits as yet, but that we should leave it to our two heroes, Enda and Joan, and it will be all right on the night.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The A team.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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There is a different narrative and it is that one third of our children are living in constant poverty, that inequality is rife, that half a million taxpayers have been forced to emigrate, that public money that should have been used to tackle the crisis in our hospitals, to rebuild public services, to house our citizens, to stimulate the economy and to create jobs, has been used instead to repay private bank debt. This unsustainable debt burden has been forced upon our people and is the single biggest cause of our economic misery.

It is not just an Irish problem; it is a European problem and it needs a European solution. There is nothing at all to lose if the Taoiseach endorses a European debt conference. In fact, it makes sense because there can only be gains. According to a Labour representative last night, the Tánaiste still believes that the proposal has merit. Will the Taoiseach raise this issue in his meetings next week with Presidents Tusk and Juncker?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Tá a fhios ag an Teachta cén freagra a thug mé ar an Teachta Ó Máirtín ní hamháin faoi chostas an leighis seo ach faoi na díospóireachtaí a bhí ar siúl idir Comhairle na nDochtúirí Leighis agus an comhlacht freisin. Tá súil agam go mbeidh siad in ann réiteach a chur ar fáil i dtreo is go mbeadh an leigheas le fáil ag na daoine atá i gceist.

Deputy Adams referred to the situation in Greece and the issue of a debt conference. I remind Deputy Adams and the House that after the first-----

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I never mentioned Greece.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----cabinet meeting of the new Government of Greece, the Prime Minister issued a statement saying that Greece would not default. That is not in keeping with Deputy Adams' philosophy, I understand. The Prime Minister indicated that Greece is prepared to negotiate and the forum for negotiation is the Eurogroup and the ECOFIN meeting. That is where the Minister, Deputy Noonan, over the past number of years and further at the European Council, has been able to negotiate and renegotiate €50 billion in respect of Ireland over the next ten years. That is the place where the question of debt is discussed and dealt with and where it can be changed. I remind Deputy Adams that in the case of Ireland, less than 10% of the interest we pay is in regard to bank debt and the remainder is in respect of moneys borrowed on the open market.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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Bank losses, not debt.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have written to the Greek Prime Minister and I wished him and his government well in the challenge they face. I am glad to hear him say that Greece will not default.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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He always said that.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am glad to hear him say that Greece is now prepared to negotiate.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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For our part, for the past number of years we have a record of being able to prove that negotiation can work in the interests of the debt position in our country which was handed to us by the catastrophic situation a number of years ago.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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Losses, not debt.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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It was a game-changer.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Retrospection and recapitalisation.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have already said to the Greek Prime Minister that we will work with him and with his government. The President, Mr. Dijsselbloem, will go to Athens on Friday to begin engagement with the new Government of Greece. I hope it will be possible that through negotiations they will be able to arrive at a sustainable position for Greece for the future.

During the past three and a half years this country has moved to a point where we are on much safer ground than previously but our recovery is incomplete and fragile. Deputy Adams has pointed out his way of doing things. He does not want any money returned to the taxpayer from AIB nor does he want anything to do with Europe and he does not want anything to do with recapitalisation. Sinn Féin proposes to abolish USC, water contributions, development charges and everything else. Sinn Féin's economic programme is a land of fantasy in terms of the people of the country. With regard to the debt position and the debt conference, I am glad to hear the Greek Prime Minister speak out that his country will not default and that they are quite prepared to negotiate within the proper EU forums and institutions in order to achieve clarity and a future for their people. I support that policy.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I am still troubled that I was a bit naive when I came in here.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I put what I think is a reasoned question to the Taoiseach and not only does he not answer it, but he put words in my mouth that I never said. I will reiterate what Sinn Féin said about debt. Sovereign debt has to be paid but it should be separated from private banking debt; private banking debt should not be paid because it is not our debt.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach talked about negotiations. This debt conference is to provide a European-wide forum for negotiating to relieve the burden from citizens of the debt that has been forced upon them.

How did the Taoiseach explain this debt when he went to Davos? He said that Paddy went mad. This was an intellectual statement, a précis in brief of what happened here.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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However, the Taoiseach knows that the economic and financial debt and the crisis-----

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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An féidir liom ord a fháil?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I can manage that.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Go raibh maith agat.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Excuse me, we should be able to hear each other in here. I call Deputy Adams.

A Deputy:

There was a time when you never asked anybody else to get order. You are losing your touch, Deputy Adams.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Typical-----

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I want to return to my question-----

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Members.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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-----but I have been in correspondence with the Ceann Comhairle. I wish to draw to the attention of the Leas-Cheann Comhairle the remark made by the Deputy opposite whose name I forget, the lad with the glasses, and I would like the Leas-Cheann Comhairle to deal with it afterwards.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I meant it in the context of a baseball bat.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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All right. Please put your question, Deputy Adams.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Rather than Paddy going mad and causing this problem, at the time of the crash the €62 billion in bank loans was in the hands of 190 people. Half of the Irish loan book at Anglo Irish Bank was held by just 20 individuals, a small elite in a golden circle, but the Taoiseach forced Paddy and Patricia to pay for these private bankers' greed. Our suggestions about burden sharing and separating private banking debt and sovereign debt were rejected, but they are now EU policy. Earlier, in response to the question from an Teachta Martin, agus dúirt sé arís é i nGaeilge, dúirt sé nár bhain sé le leigheas ach le hairgead. Why should Irish citizens have to suffer deprivation, inequality, forced emigration, poverty and the denial of their rights to pay for the greed of this small group in the golden circle?

The Taoiseach had the option, and we asked him to do it numerous times, to apply formally for retrospective recapitalisation of AIB and Bank of Ireland, but he has not done so. The people to whom I speak do not understand why the Taoiseach refuses to pursue options which would make our debt sustainable and fair. Will the Taoiseach outline to the Dáil for any citizens who may be listening to him any logical reason behind his rejection of the proposal for a European debt conference? Let us not talk about Greece. Let us talk about here and the debt being forced upon people here, and how a debt conference could be a forum for relieving this burden.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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It could be held on the north side of Dublin.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Let us talk about here. One thing Deputy Adams is not is naive. All of the people listening know he is not naive. He should not understate his own experience. He states he wants a debt conference to have a forum to discuss debt.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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To discuss the relief of the debt from the people.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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Like the London one in 1953.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is why we already have fora in existence. They are the Eurogroup, ECOFIN and the European Council. In the case of Ireland, since he was appointed, the Minister for Finance has been involved in negotiations within these groups on the question of debt relief and easing the burden on the Irish taxpayer. This is where Ireland's problems were raised, where they were discussed, negotiated-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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And left.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----confirmed and approved later by the European Council.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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And not dealt with.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is why the progress we have made allows us to be able to borrow on the international markets at a fraction of the cost it did when we were appointed, to a point where we can now buy out-----

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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To borrow to pay.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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With new loans.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----the loans from the IMF of €18 billion which over the coming ten years will save the Irish taxpayer €1.2 billion in interest charges.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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And we still have €30 billion in debt.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Mathews, this is Leaders' Questions.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The forum which exists is called the Eurogroup. This is where Ireland has negotiated €50 billion in respect of promissory notes, interest rate reductions and extensions of maturity dates. I am glad the newly elected Prime Minister of Greece is prepared to negotiate his country's debt relief situation-----

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We would like the Taoiseach to do the same.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----in this group and with these institutions.

As the Minister for Finance has pointed out on many occasions, over the period ahead we expect to get back every euro the Irish taxpayer has put into the banks since the Government was appointed. This is what negotiations and a growing economy are about. Deputy Adams does not want to do this because he wants AIB retained as a nationalised bank owned by the State. He does not want to get back for the taxpayer the moneys put into the restructuring of the bank. He is not naive enough not to understand this. This is why we have a banking inquiry, so the truth can come out about all of the issues which happened in the lead-up to it.

Deputy Adams knows Northern Ireland very well and speaks all the time about the economic progress being made, which is right and proper. This year our deficit in the Republic will be below 3% because of the prudent and competent management of the Government in respect of the economy.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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At what cost to ordinary punters?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The deficit in Northern Ireland is 33% at present-----

Joe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Adams is not good at maths.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and Deputy Adams proclaims this to be something with which he can live. Economic ballyhoo from Deputy Adams, who is not naive but who does not recognise the truth when it is staring him in the face.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Much talk of police reform has not materialised. The Guerin report was published in May 2014, nine months ago, but only now is a commission of investigation being established. Its terms are too narrow and it will go through the Houses without debate. Will it even be completed before the next election? Will the Fennelly commission be completed before the next election or will it be kicked down the road? When will the report on the independent review mechanism be published? In July, the Minister stated the majority of cases would be reviewed within 12 weeks. That was a long time ago. The independent Garda authority was supposed to be up and running by the end of 2014. We have not even seen the first draft of legislation. The Garda Inspectorate's report into serious crime, published on 11 November, has not even been discussed here yet. Debate has been stifled on policing issues. Since 11 November we have tabled 16 Topical Issue matters on policing matters but none of them has been taken.

The latest penalty points fiasco has reinforced the fact that indiscipline is rampant in the senior ranks of the Garda. As Maurice McCabe stated at the weekend, the penalty points system is broken and the Government is putting sticking plasters on it. There is no law and order with regard to senior management. There are no sanctions when they break the rules. This is not just about penalty points. If this is how the law is applied to the penalty points system, how is it applied when it comes to charging someone, arresting someone, and taking someone's complaint seriously? The Garda Inspectorate's report went to great lengths to point out the Garda widely ignores its own policy. Indiscipline is rampant. What is the Government doing about it?

In light of all this indiscipline and given that investigations into allegations of very serious wrongdoing, including Garda involvement in the drug trade, are ongoing in a number of Garda divisions, will the Taoiseach give us an assurance that the promotions and movement of senior gardaí will not include gardaí from these districts before investigations are complete? Will the Taoiseach confirm or deny whether Inspector John McDonald, who is in charge of the fixed charge processing unit in Thurles and who has been responsible for multiple terminations at a huge cost to the State, has been placed on a promotions list?

Deputies:

Out of order.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputy, do not name these people.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I would like the Taoiseach to listen carefully to my next question. Will he tell the House when he personally was first made aware of very serious Garda malpractice in the Athlone area, and what action did he take?

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Out of order.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I cannot answer all of the questions Deputy Wallace has raised. Am I to understand he is naming people who have been recommended for promotion, whom he alleges have been involved in criminal activities?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Is that what he is saying?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is the import of what he is saying.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I am asking-----

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach has the floor.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If I understand what Deputy Wallace is saying, people involved in criminal activity are being nominated for promotion. Am I to understand that is what he is saying?

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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If the Taoiseach checks the record that is not what I said.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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What did you say?

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I asked whether the person responsible for the fixed charge notice system in Thurles, who has been responsible for multiple terminations, is on a promotions list.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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You named the person.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not have any information about who is or is not on a promotion list. I am glad the Deputy clarified the comment that he made.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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The Taoiseach can check the record later.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy raised a number of issues. The Guerin report will follow the inquiry that the Government has agreed to set up. That will be set in place after today. The Fennelly inquiry is under way. The sole member wrote to me looking for an extension of time until the end of this year, and I have granted that. I support, if possible, the production by the inquiry of earlier reports in respect of a number of specific matters.

The review commission received 307 cases, some of which go back 30 years, and the vast majority of those have been examined by the panel of senior counsel and junior counsel appointed to review those cases. I assume that when they have completed their work they will bring that to the attention of the Minister for Justice and Equality very quickly.

I understand that the changes that have been made in respect of fixed penalty notice are significant and that there are now three senior personnel who are entitled and authorised to relieve penalty charges where they might be applied for whatever particular reasons. Yesterday the Government appointed a judge to oversee that practice, to give it further transparency and accountability.

Regarding the issues that I have missed in the Deputy's long list-----

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The Garda authority legislation.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When is that due to be ready?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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It is due shortly.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Garda authority is due in here very shortly.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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The abuse of the penalty points system was so endemic that independent bodies have had to be created to keep an eye on things. The Taoiseach is not accepting the fact that there is massive indiscipline in the senior ranks of the force. Can he explain why there has been so little opportunity to debate policing matters since last summer? Can he also explain why the Government has no appetite for depoliticising policing in Ireland, despite the recommendations of the likes of Professor Dermot Walsh? Anyone who read Conor Brady's book over Christmas would have noted that the politicisation of policing in Ireland has gone on since the 1950s at a really bad level, and that is part of the huge problem we are facing. Until the Government decides to depoliticise it and we have an independent police authority that acts as a buffer between the Government of the day and the police force, we will continue to have these problems. The former Minister, Deputy Shatter, would still be in power and would still have his job if there had not been such a flawed system, and the Government is not correcting it.

I remind the Taoiseach of my last question to him, which he did not answer. I asked if he could tell the House when he was first made personally aware of very serious Garda malpractice in the Athlone area and what action he took.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am not clear on what the Deputy is talking about in respect of the Athlone area. He will have to give me further detail on that, and if he wishes to do so, he can give me it me after the completion of the Order of Business.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Somebody might have picked it up.

A Deputy:

What about you, Mattie?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In respect of the independent policing authority, this is the most radical shake-up in the justice system since the foundation of the State. The appointment of the Garda Commissioner was subject to open competition and was a completely independent system for making that recommendation for appointment by Government. All promotions of senior personnel are done by a panel for which completely independent people apply. It is not a politicised system any more because the situation is completely independent, and there has been the most radical shake-up since the foundation of the State.

Out of 400,000 penalty points issued every year, about 2.9% are quashed, in accordance with the system that applies, where that is valid. There are only three people who can now quash penalty points. Since the new system was introduced, only seven cases have been referred for further analysis under this new system. In anybody's language there has been a serious shake-up, and it has been for the better in terms of accountancy, accountability and transparency in a system that is very important for people.