Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

8. To ask the Minister for Defence the position regarding the decision to approve the participation of seven members of the Defence Forces in the resolute support mission in Afghanistan in view of it clearly not being a peacekeeping or humanitarian mission; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1219/15]

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The illegal invasion of Afghanistan in October 2001 led to the longest war in US history. The recent pact with the Afghan Government ensures that the US will be there until 2024 at least. The new security pact puts US troops beyond the reach of Afghan law while they are training the Afghan security forces. I do not see for the life of me how the Minister, who is an intelligent man, can argue that the presence of foreign troops from Ireland, America or any other country can be helpful in this situation, particularly in light of the decimation they have carried out in Afghanistan over the last 13 years.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The point of moving on from the International Security Assistance Force, ISAF, mission is to move away from having large numbers of heavily armed foreign troops in Afghanistan and towards the resolute support mission, which is a training mission to help build Afghanistan's capacity to run its own affairs. We are trying to move away from a wartime situation and to create peace and stability in order that there can be a governance structure as well as the military and policing capacity necessary to protect it and populations. We are a part of this. We have seven Defence Forces personnel there. This is a non-combat mission and it is concerned with training and building capacity in order that Afghanistan can look forward to some kind of normalisation in terms of running its own affairs. This is the only motivation for the countries that are remaining as part of the 12,000-strong mission. I named a number of the countries that are in Afghanistan in partnership with Ireland, including many other neutral countries. They are there for all the right reasons, as is Ireland.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not accept for one second that the involvement of the US and its allies in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya has contributed one iota to improving the lifestyles and conditions of the ordinary people in those countries. It has done the opposite. The more money the US and its allies spent and threw at the situation, the more problems they caused. The Minister has claimed that they are only training local security forces now. For a long time, they were "only training" security forces in Iraq. Many of those people are now working for ISIS. ISIS has captured a great deal of US equipment that cannot be used by anyone who has not been trained by the US military.

What sort of turmoil are we sowing in Afghanistan? Only last year, the Rolling Stonemagazine published a video showing Afghan security forces torturing prisoners. I wonder where they learned that? Afghanistan will be a better place when we move out of it. Actually, it is not just us, as our seven personnel are obviously just a token gesture. It is a small number compared with others. It is a token offering to show the Americans we support them. Some people have even suggested that the beef deal was almost in return for that.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is a ridiculous thing to say, with all due respect.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am just saying what has been suggested.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister has the floor.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We need to put things in perspective. The US launched a military campaign in Afghanistan because of 9-11, when there was considerable proof of terrorist training camps in Afghanistan. Mistakes were made subsequently and there are major challenges in Afghanistan to creating a functional, normalised state, but the idea that pulling all of the contributing non-Afghan troops out would somehow be to the betterment of the broader population when all evidence suggests that the country would simply be taken over by the Taliban again is not sound thinking. We are playing a small part in contributing to an effort to create the capacity in Afghanistan to run its own affairs from governance and security points of view. This contribution is welcomed by the Afghanistan Government in its efforts towards same. As long as we can make a positive contribution, we will continue doing so.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister and I will have to differ on why the Americans bombed Afghanistan. Only one person from Afghanistan was proven to be involved in the 9-11 attack. Sixteen were from Saudi Arabia. Did it dawn on the US to bomb Saudi Arabia? Damn right it did not, as the Americans have interests there.

The Minister referred to fears about the Taliban concerning the elections. The last elections were rigged. Warlords and all kinds of torturers are involved in the current regime.

That is not something to be lauded and it is the ordinary Afghani people who are losing out. When the United States bombed the country, former President Bush demanded that Osama bin Laden be turned over. When Bush was asked whether he had any proof bin Laden was involved in the attacks on the US, he did not have any such proof. Nevertheless, the former president said Afghanistan would be bombed until its leaders handed over bin Laden and that is what happened. A month later Bush told the Afghanis he would bomb them until such time as they overthrew their own government. It was the most mindless and stupid war that ever took place and it makes no sense that we should have seven troops stationed there. We should be washing our hands of what was done to the Afghani people and getting out of there. The militarisation of the whole region has done huge damage worldwide.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not accept the accuracy of what the Deputy is saying. I travelled to Pakistan some years ago and interviewed people in refugee camps who had come from Afghanistan following the bombings that took place there in the wake of the 11 September 2001 attacks on the United States. I remember very clearly the things I saw there and the people to whom I spoke. This is not a simple black and white issue. We are trying, in a very difficult and complex environment, to contribute to a functioning governance structure in a country that has had no such structure for many decades.

One of the ways in which we can do that is by training security forces there to deal with things they are likely to have to deal with in the coming months and years. We are good at post-conflict management and resolution and we are good at training. It is something we are already doing in Mali and other parts of the world. We are making a small contribution towards a significant international effort to help the Government in Afghanistan, a Government I acknowledge is not perfect, to run its own affairs into the future. It is a worthy objective.