Dáil debates

Wednesday, 14 January 2015

Topical Issue Debate

Education and Training Provision

4:05 pm

Photo of Pat DeeringPat Deering (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Ceann Comhairle's office for selecting this matter, which was brought to my attention during the Christmas recess. St. Catherine's community services centre in Carlow runs a Moving On local training programme targeting new mothers with lower second level education. During the ten months of the course from September to June, participants complete nine Quality and Qualifications Ireland, QQI, level four modules, which leads to an award equivalent to the leaving certificate. The profile of the participants is young women who are unable to continue mainstream education because of substantial personal needs for social support. During the lifetime of this extremely important programme, hundreds of participants have achieved personal, social and educational development and been empowered to progress to employment and further education. These successful outcomes are possible because of the high level of support offered to participants in the programme. As well as assisting them towards their educational attainments, they are supported with advice and information on housing, welfare, financial management and physical and mental health.

All of this is crucial for their personal well-being, persistence and resilience and for the future development of their children. Each participant is assigned a key worker who regularly supports them on a one-to-one basis in respect of personal education issues. The personal growth and development of participants is measured by means of specific mechanisms and encouraged by means of the soft outcomes universal learning, SOUL, training model. I understand that Carlow and Dundalk are the only two locations in the country at which the needs of single mothers in this regard are dealt with.

Prior to January 2014, participants on the SOLAS training course who were in receipt of the one-parent family payment received an additional training allowance of €108.20, together with their social welfare payments. This training allowance ceased in January of last year. The participants on the Moving On training and service programme at St. Catherine's during 2013 and 2014 were the last to receive the allowance. Of the 20 who started on the programme, 16 completed it. Of these, 15 gained major awards. Fifty-five applications were received in respect of the 20 places on offer on the programme for the 2014-2015 year. Unfortunately, a lack of financial support - namely, the training allowance - meant that 27 of the potential participants who secured places on the programme during the summer months declined them on the grounds that they would not be able to afford to attend at St. Catherine's. The level of demand for the course was more than double the number of places available. Although the course is free of charge, the personal cost of attending was seen as prohibitive by the majority of potential participants. As a result, for the first time since the course's inception, only 15 participants commenced the programme in September 2014. An application to the Department of Social Protection for out-of-pocket expenses was refused on the grounds that this is a 40-week programme and that such expenses only apply in respect of 26-week programmes.

The major issue arising relates to the fact that those who participate on this programme are the underprivileged in our society. It costs such individuals between €15 and €30 week to have their children looked after. They are also obliged to pay travel expenses. Most of the people to whom I refer live in rural areas and may be obliged to ask someone to transport them to St. Catherine's or to make other arrangements. In general terms, the cost relating to running the programme is €13,000. Given that there are only two such programmes on offer in the country, this means that a total of €26,000 is all that is required to ensure that both will remain in existence for the next period. As already stated, we are talking about some of society's most marginalised individuals - namely, young women who are single parents or otherwise and who want to develop personally in order to ensure that they will enjoy a favourable future. I ask the Minister of State to consider reviewing the position with a view to reinstating the training allowance to which I refer.

4:15 pm

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Deering for raising this matter and for giving me the opportunity to clarify the position in relation to the payment of allowances to participants on the Moving On training initiative. This initiative is part of the local training initiative programme funded by my Department through SOLAS and the education and training boards. The latter, in collaboration with local community organisations, provide flexible local training initiatives for unemployed persons. In Carlow, such initiatives are provided at St. Catherine's for young mothers who are unemployed and who are seeking pathways back into work. The local training initiative programme is designed to provide opportunities for marginalised learners who are unable to participate in other education and training board training interventions for personal, social or geographical reasons.

The programme enables local communities to carry out valuable and necessary projects of benefit to their communities, while at the same time training participants in areas related to the project work in order that they can go on to gain employment or progress to further training. Unemployed people, primarily those between 16 and 35 years of age, who have no formal qualifications or whose secondary level qualifications are incomplete and who are experiencing some form of disadvantage are eligible to apply. The local training initiative programme supports many organisations engaged in a wide variety of activities, including genealogy, environment, heritage, tourism, arts, sports and leisure. It received over €33 million from my Department in 2014.

The payment of allowances for training, including that relating to the local training initiative programme, is aligned to people's social welfare entitlements. A number of changes have been made in this area in the context of budget decisions taken in recent years. These changes have largely been driven by the economic situation that obtained in the country in recent times. As part of the decisions to which I refer, the payment of dual allowances to certain participants on training courses was ceased. I refer here to new participants, as the payment would have continued in the case of existing participants. The dual allowance model is where certain participants, such as lone parents, retained their social welfare payments and also received the standard training allowance while participating on training courses. The payment of an additional training allowance of €31.80 to the long-term unemployed was also ceased on a gradual basis in recent years. I understand it is to this allowance that the Deputy refers.

The budget changes to which I refer had an impact on all education and training board training programmes that attracted training allowances. The core purpose of these additional allowances was to act as an incentive to participation in training during a period of high employment levels. They were never meant to be an additional support; rather, they were designed to attract people to the relevant courses during the good times. I accept, however, that over time they came to be viewed as an additional support, and that is probably where the problem lies. There is no doubt that attending the courses to which I refer involves a cost to participants. The additional training allowances were never intended to address the cost of participation in training. Separate arrangements, such as those relating to meals, travel and child care, were always in place for that purpose. The nature of the payments - as an incentive rather than as a measure intended to meet the cost of participation - is demonstrated by the fact that they was not available to all people in receipt of payments from the Department of Social Protection. In other words, only certain individuals qualified for them. The changes in question reflect the entirely different employment situation that now obtains, as well as the very difficult budgetary position in which the Government finds itself at a time when we are endeavouring to protect the overall level of provision of education and training.

The Deputy referred to child care and the cost of travel. Quite a number of participants on these schemes may qualify for either full-time or part-time subsidised child care places. It would be worth his while checking the position in this regard under the child care employment and training support scheme. I imagine that some of those to whom the Deputy refers would be entitled to support, and I will certainly check the position as well. Certain participants on courses are paid travel costs on the basis of the distance they reside from the location at which the course is on offer. These payments range from €4.60 to €32.60.

The overall issue which arises is whether the cessation of the training allowance constitutes a barrier to education. Part of the work SOLAS will do in the coming year will involve examining the position with regard to barriers to participation. I give the Deputy a commitment that we will consider the matter he has raised in the context of the SOLAS review.

Photo of Pat DeeringPat Deering (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for his detailed reply. I fully accept the need for a complete review of a number of these schemes. However, the programme to which I refer is extremely important. It deals specifically with a very marginalised group within society, which appears to fall between the two stools of the Departments of Education and Skills and Social Protection. The members of that group are pushed from one Department to the other from time to time and are losing out in the general scheme of things. I welcome the Minister of State's commitment to review the overall position.

The Minister of State referred to the fact that people need to be attracted to these programmes.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That was the case in the good times.

Photo of Pat DeeringPat Deering (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We need to continue to attract them in order that they might have the opportunity to move on and better themselves. There is no way we will attract people if they are going to be left out of pocket. Those to whom I refer are marginalised and they need to be provided with incentives in order that they might be attracted to programmes of this nature. If they are going to be obliged to pay for child care and travel - some of the women to whom I refer are obliged to travel from rural areas of County Carlow into the town centre at a cost of €30 or €40 per week - then they are going to remain at home.

The Minister of State indicated that some of those in question may qualify for subsidised child care. I understand that such child care is only available between the hours of 9.30 a.m. and 12.30 p.m. This would immediately rule many women out. I accept that they could have their children cared for in the mornings, but what will they do with them if they are obliged to attend courses in the afternoons? There are a number of barriers in place and these must be addressed. If the young women to whom I refer want the opportunity to progress, they must be given it.

Those in Carlow who qualified for the scheme last year all progressed to the next level of education and some of them are currently obtaining work experience. This has been the position for a number of years. There is a good level of progression among these young women, and that is important in the context of all of these very worthwhile schemes.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I understand that subsidised child care is not just available in the mornings. After-school care is available under the child care employment and training support scheme and I presume that child care is also available. I will check the position for the Deputy. The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Reilly, announced a major review of this area in recent days.

When I used the word "incentive", I was not referring to people needing incentives to attend courses. We actually want people to engage with such courses. In the boom times, however, additional incentives were sometimes required in order to encourage people to re-engage.

It was felt unnecessary to continue with this in recent years and, in fact, we could not afford to make such an incentive available. It was never meant to subsidise the cost of attending the course.

I accept there is an additional cost associated with attending the course, and that why there are child care and travel expenses. Perhaps some of the Deputy's clients could avail of these. The overall cost of attending is a barrier. I have given the Deputy a commitment here that SOLAS's further education and training strategy will identify and address the barriers to participation on the courses and examine them as part of the review. I will ensure the case in question is considered also.

In general, over 200,000 people are involved in further education and training courses. There are a range of subsidies and supports for them all. The one in question applied across the board. The incentive had to be removed for the groups in Carlow and Dundalk. The additional incentive was removed across the board a number of years ago. People had probably become reliant on it but, as I stated, it was removed only for new participants on the course. That is my understanding. We will have it reviewed under the SOLAS review. I hope that will help.