Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is proposed to take No. 18a, motion re membership of committee; No. 33, statements on the European Council, Brussels, pursuant to Standing Order 102A(2)(b); and No. 5, Finance Bill 2014 - Second Stage (resumed). It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 18ashall be decided without debate; that No. 33 shall be taken immediately following the Order of Business, that the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 85 minutes and that the following arrangements shall apply: the statements shall be made by the Taoiseach and the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group who shall be called upon in that order and may share their time and shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; a Minister or a Minister of State shall take questions for a period not exceeding 20 minutes; a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; and that the suspension of the sitting under Standing Order 23 (1) shall take place at the conclusion of No. 33. Private Members’ business shall be No. 166, motion re mortgage arrears (resumed), to conclude at 9 p.m., if not previously concluded. Tomorrow’s business after Oral Questions shall be No. 5, Finance Bill 2014 - Second Stage (resumed), and No. 6, Social Welfare Bill 2014 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are two proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 18a, motion re membership of committee, agreed to?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We oppose it. The Government must take on board the huge disquiet among the public about this issue and provide time for a proper debate in the House on it.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is a motion about membership of a committee, a change of personnel.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I know. I am saying that before we take the Order of Business-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, it is not a question of whether we should take the Order of Business. It is a question of whether the Deputy agrees to it.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am saying I do not agree to it and that I wish to give my reason.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the Deputy opposing the motion?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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A Cheann Comhairle-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The reason is that 150,000 people marched last Saturday.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not going back to that issue.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am just giving the reason and will do so briefly.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It has nothing to do with the membership of a committee.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am opposing the Order of Business. I am simply saying the Government should provide time to allow a proper, comprehensive debate on Irish Water, something the House has been denied from the start. Over 12 months ago the Opposition walked out of the Chamber because of the use of the guillotine in the debate on the Water Services Bill. It was a disgrace. Subsequently, commitments that parliamentarians could put questions to the Minister were also avoided.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not putting up with this abuse of the Order of Business.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not an abuse of the Order of Business.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is a total abuse.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I also put it to the Taoiseach-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat? He opposes the motion.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----that the Government has lost a vote in the Seanad on the holding of a referendum to prohibit the privatisation of Irish Water.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are dealing with a motion re membership of a committee.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Labour Party Senators voted with Fianna Fáil and other Senators in favour of holding a referendum to prohibit privatisation. My point is that we need government time to discuss the water issue.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am on my feet.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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You are being unreasonable.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not. If the Deputy wants to seek time for a debate, he should do so on the Order of Business. This is a motion about a change in membership of a committee.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am opposing it.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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A Member is entitled under Standing Orders to oppose a proposal made by the Taoiseach on the Order of Business.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is a motion relating to the membership of a committee. The Deputy may speak to that proposal if he wishes. He should not speak about Irish Water.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Under Standing Orders, we are entitled to make a short statement on why we are opposing a proposal.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should resume his seat.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The reason we are opposing it is that the Government is putting through all types of business, but on the business that is seizing the nation, water charges-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is a motion about a change in membership.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----there is no clarity provided by the Government-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Deputy does not resume his seat, I will have to suspend the sitting. I am not putting up with this abuse of the rules of the House. If the Deputy wants to test me, try it.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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There is no need for that.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not putting up with this any longer.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I have a simple question for the Taoiseach-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat? We are discussing a motion to change the membership of a committee, which has nothing to do with Irish Water.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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When will the Taoiseach provide clarity on what he is saying the people must pay?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am on my feet.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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They will at least know how much-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will suspend the sitting. This will not be tolerated. This has been going on for the past few weeks and I will not put up with it any longer.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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What is going on?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is abusing the privileges of this House. When there is a motion on the membership of a committee, he wants to talk about Irish Water.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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No, we do not. We want to know when the Government will give us time to discuss the disastrous situation with water charges.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach is putting forward the Order of Business.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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He is not. I am putting a question on a motion.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to object to the Order of Business.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Then do so on the Order of Business, not on this question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We can say we support something and that we are opposing something. Under Standing Orders, we are entitled to give an explanation for why we are opposing something.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I object to the Order of Business. There are more pressing matters which must be dealt with today. The Seanad has had a debate, but we are not allowed to have one. I ask the Taoiseach to change the Order of Business to allow a debate, not least because the Seanad has called for a referendum on these pressing matters.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat?

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Second, one party in government has supported the holding of a referendum while another has opposed it.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has made his point.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I am requesting-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is opposing the motion on a change in the membership of the committee.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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No, I am putting a proposition-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will put the question.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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You did not allow the Taoiseach to reply.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat? I will take no more lectures from him.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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You did not allow the Taoiseach to reply.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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He is not going to reply to a motion.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It was not a motion but a request.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I remind everybody that this is live on television. Would you please remember that we are representing the people? This sort of carry-on day in and day out is absolutely disgraceful. You should come to my office and listen to the complaints that come into me. Nobody is impressing anybody, I can tell you.

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 33, statements on European Council, Brussels, pursuant to Standing Order 102A(2)(b), agreed to? Agreed.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Seanad has voted for a referendum to prohibit the privatisation of Irish Water. My understanding is that the Labour Party has supported that call. I put to the Taoiseach the urgent need for the Government to give time to the House to discuss Irish Water. The legislation was guillotined and there is a need to bring not just clarity but openness to all of the issues pertaining to Irish Water. No programme of investment or prioritisation has been outlined to the House. There has been no clarity on the level of revenue required to enable the Government to borrow off balance sheet. I have never been given that figure and Deputy Cowen has been asking for a year for a swathe of information.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot debate this issue again.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Taoiseach to give time, in advance of the Government's decision, in order that he can hear what others have to say about the issue.

We learned yesterday that there were more than 400 trolleys in accident and emergency departments across the country. Beaumont had 37 trollies, James Connolly Memorial Hospital had 49, Galway had 25 and Naas had 21. That is extraordinarily unfair on the patients and families involved. I asked the Taoiseach about the health reform Bill and other health legislation yesterday. It seems that the entire programme for Government and the legislation promised in regard to health are in tatters. There is no sense of any plan or coherence and things are falling apart. The Government is in denial. What is the status of the health reform and health information Bills?

When will the family leave Bill be produced? We are one of only two countries across the European Union that does not have specific legislation to allow both parents to take leave when they have a baby. Senator White and others have progressed the issue in the Seanad and commitments in that regard have been made by the Minister. I ask the Taoiseach to indicate when the Government intends to bring the Bill before the House.

When does the Taoiseach expect to bring the Seanad Electoral (University Members) (Amendment) Bill before the House? We have long lost any notion that a democratic revolution will happen, but reform was promised after the Seanad referendum. When will he outline his proposals to reform the Seanad? Publishing the Bill would be a first step.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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An electoral reform Bill giving effect to a referendum of the people in 1979 will be published early next year. Work is proceeding on the family leave, health information and health reform Bills. The family leave Bill will be published early next year and the family information Bill will be published later than that. The health reform Bill is being examined by the Minister for Health. In respect of delayed discharges from hospital for those who have been cleared to leave but for whom no step-down facilities are available, €25 million has been provided for that in the budget. The Minister will attend to that matter between now and Christmas.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is a 15 week delay.

Sandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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There is a 16 week delay.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is a 20 week delay.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes, I understand. He is also considering the fair deal situation.

I have no objection to giving the Members of the House as much time as they wish to speak on the question of Irish Water, but I will only do it when the Government has made its decision in respect of this.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is the problem.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not having a debate on this issue again.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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People need to be able to know what it is they are talking about.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Does he want to play the man or the ball?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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They will know that when the Government makes its decision. That will happen inside the next two weeks and people can talk about it as long as they like then and give their opinions for, against or whatever else.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No one is allowed to have any say.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please stay quiet. Thank you.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am giving the Deputy confirmation that he will have as long as wants to speak on Irish Water when the Government makes its decision, which will be inside the next two weeks.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There has been no-----

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There will be openness, transparency and accountability. When the Deputy refers to a democratic revolution, I might point out that we have introduced more reforms in here than happened in the previous 50 years.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, you have not.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not agree with having a secret vote in respect of the election of a Ceann Comhairle because of people who are not here, either in minority or tight Government situations. This is the House where accountability is to apply.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That does not happen.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If one is not able to stand over one's vote in the election of a Ceann Comhairle then one needs to consider that very carefully.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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All Deputy Murphy has been able to do is play five-a-side soccer for the past three years.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We cannot have a situation where in a very tight Dáil somebody, for whatever manipulative reasons, who might aspire to be Ceann Comhairle can choose to gain support through secret means. It is an open vote and will remain so, and that is the way it should be. The people's representatives are sent in here to represent them and to be open, transparent and accountable. That is why the Ceann Comhairle of the day should be elected by an open vote, something I support very strongly. Members will have as much time as they want to discuss Irish Water when the Government makes a decision within the next two weeks.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I refer to the minimum wage, marriage equality and the housing regulation Bills. I respectfully suggest to the Taoiseach that it might be useful to have a debate before the Government makes up its mind so we can inform it of our view on all of these matters.

That would be a democratic way to proceed.

The Government has committed to establishing a body to examine the minimum wage Bill and related matters. Approximately 180,000 citizens are currently on the minimum legal wage, the grand sum of €8.65 per hour, or less if one is under 18 years of age. Will the Taoiseach give us a progress report on that issue please?

In regard to the marriage equality Bill, tá daoine ag fanacht agus tá sé riachtanach go mbeidh guth ag gach duine maidir leis an gceist tábhachtach seo. When can we expect this legislation and will the Government support the voter drive which is under way among the gay and lesbian community and others to ensure people are registered in time to vote? This Bill is to be introduced in the next term, with the heads of the Bill to be agreed by the Cabinet.

The housing regulation Bill was promised and is to provide a regulatory framework for approved housing bodies. This will be welcomed, given the housing problems being faced by citizens. Will the Bill address this problem and when can we expect it?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot discuss the detail of the Bill. We have two minutes left for the Order of Business.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has already informed me of his views in respect of Irish Water. He supports those who pay, those who do not pay and those who cannot pay. I know his view - it is all things to all people at all times.

Yesterday, the Government gave authorisation for the low pay commission, which will examine the question of wage regulation and wage levels. As the Deputy is aware, in the past, we had a very haphazard structure. The low pay commission will bring coherence to the advice that should be given in respect of wage structuring and it was approved by Cabinet yesterday.

We fully support the programme to encourage people to register to vote and to ensure they are registered to vote by 25 November. I met with young Fine Gael members this morning and they are launching a campaign to support this. Everybody should check the register to ensure they are registered to vote, so that when the Bill is published early in the new year and when the date for the referendum is fixed, they will be registered to cast their votes.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The general election might be on the same day.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The housing regulation Bill is listed for next year.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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A few weeks ago, I raised the matter of the promised health reform Bill which is to put in place new structures for the health service. We have a serious crisis in regard to the ambulance service in Wexford. Two weeks ago, a 50 year old man died of a heart attack. The ambulance that came to the scene had no defibrillator and no cardiac tablets and the back-up ambulance did not arrive. The man died but he possibly would have survived if the situation were different. While we are waiting for the new Bill, can we do something to alleviate the problem in regard to the ambulance service in Wexford. Last Sunday, an ambulance took three hours to off-load its patient.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot raise individual problems on the Order of Business.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Wallace should get a report from the HSE and the ambulance control centre in respect of the situation in Wexford. We have had similar instances in other parts of the country. I understand the Minister for Health, Deputy Varadkar, addressed this question in the Seanad this week.