Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I apologise. I saw Deputy Joe Higgins on his feet and thought the Leas-Cheann Comhairle was going to call him on Leaders’ Questions.

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Maybe next week.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste is acknowledging the changing weather vane.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Order of Business is No. a11, motion re withdrawal of the Ombudsman for Children (Amendment) Bill 2014; No. 23, European Stability Mechanism (Amendment) Bill 2014 - Report and Final Stages (resumed); No. 24, Health (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2014 - Order for Report Stage and Report and Final Stages.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Private Members’ Business, No. 154, motion re Seanad reform, shall be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after three hours; that the Order shall resume thereafter; that tomorrow’s fortnightly Friday business, subject to the agreement of No. a11, shall be No. 47, Social Clauses in Public Procurement Bill 2013.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members’ Business agreed to?

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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No. The proposal is that after Private Members’ Business the order shall resume. I oppose this and propose instead that we have a debate today on the disaster that is the Government’s water charges policy. We need to have that debate because 100,000 people flooded on to the streets of Dublin last Saturday to demand, in no certain terms, that the Government abolish the water tax. They want this to be stated categorically. I know that the Tánaiste will have been outraged that some of those involved in the demonstration had the audacity to take pictures on mobile phones instead of bringing plain paper and crayons to sketch the historic event. They were giving the lie to the cynical propaganda that austerity was at an end - some end to austerity when families with four, five and six over-18 years olds face bills of €500 to €800 next year and the year after when the Government’s cynical cap will finish.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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No, that is not the case.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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No, the Deputy is wrong.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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If the Tánaiste does not listen to the people exercising their power on the streets, perhaps she might listen to them at the ballot box. The Government, particularly the Labour Party, was eviscerated in the recent by-elections over water charges and other issues.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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This has to do with the proposal concerning Private Members’ Business.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Under Standing Orders, I am allowed to make a short statement in opposition to the Order of Business. I am concluding.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should speak to the proposal.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The Tánaiste can lacerate Fianna Fáil all she wants for lack of investment in water services. However, 20 years ago when she was in government, she could have put €1 billion or €2 billion into water infrastructure. Instead, she gave a massive tax amnesty to criminal tax cheats with their offshore accounts.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I am calling the Tánaiste to reply to the Deputy.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The Fianna Fáil leader, Deputy Micheál Martin, said something important today.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Did he?

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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He said up to €175 million might constitute the net income next year from water charges if there were 100% compliance. The Government should forget it. It will face a mass national non-payment campaign that will put Captain Boycott in the shade. The Tánaiste had better get wise to the anger being expressed. It will not be reconciled by the Government’s paltry concessions in the budget.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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What about the property tax? There was a 95% compliance rate.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has made his brief contribution.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I want the debate to take place today or the Government to set aside time tomorrow. This issue must be dealt with and dealt with now.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Government has had a significant number of debates and discussions on the matter.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The Dáil only debated the Irish Water Bill for four hours before the debate was guillotined.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government might have, but the Dáil did not.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Any such debate would be a matter for the Whips. I do not see any reason to change the Order of Business.

Deputy Joe Higgins does not seem to be aware that in the budget the families to whom he referred will receive a reduction in the taxes they have to pay. There is a rebalancing of the tax structure in order that people at work, including hardworking individuals on low and middle incomes, will get some relief. They will also receive improved payments in child benefit.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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The point is that it will be unaffordable.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Deputy in his lofty way can dismiss all of this and the fact that there are more people at work. He seems to want everyone to be on welfare payments. That is his vision for society.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Bertie Ahern could not do better.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I want to see people at work. I recall when the Deputy’s party was in charge of the city council in Liverpool a long time ago.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Liverpool.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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In the end, the Deputy’s party sacked the council workers and sent taxis to give them their redundancy notices.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Higgins should apologise.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I will now put the proposal to the House.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The Tánaiste, in particular, should know about the poll tax.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Sorry, Deputy Higgins. On the Order of Business I now call Deputy Martin.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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He has not impressed Deputy Paul Murphy this morning.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I was somewhat surprised this morning that the Tánaiste did not condemn any letter emanating from any local authority threatening eviction for people if they had difficulty paying water charges. She should make it clear that that is not acceptable practice. I do not think anybody in the House would justify that but she did not take the opportunity afforded to her to do that.

When Deputy Higgins sought a debate, the Tánaiste mentioned that the Government had spent a lot of time on the matter. The Government may have spent a lot of time internally, although I do not know. When the consultants' costs were revealed, many Ministers said they knew nothing about it. We subsequently learned, however, that the Economic Management Council, or EMC, a sub-committee of the Cabinet, took all the decisions on Irish Water. Maybe they did not know but the Dáil was not informed. If the Tánaiste remembers, the legislation was rammed through the Dáil in about four hours.

We have therefore had an incredible lack of any serious discussion on the entire issue and particularly around the legislation that established Irish Water. We simply were not given the time because the legislation was guillotined well over a year ago in about two or three hours.

Yesterday, we learned that Fine Gael has demanded that Irish Water should come before an internal Fine Gael committee. This is all about Fine Gael Deputies.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy could bring them before a Fianna Fáil committee.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Labour Party apparently met Irish Water two weeks ago.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We have and it is open to the Deputy to do so.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We did ask. Our environment spokesman, Deputy Barry Cowen, has asked in writing.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is good.

A Deputy:

What did they say to you?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There has been no response.

A Deputy:

They are unaccountable.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Obviously Irish Water feels it has to be more accountable to Fine Gael's internal committee or Labour Party Deputies than it has to be to the Oireachtas. That is the only lesson I can draw from that, but it is not good enough. There is an incredible arrogance on the Government benches-----

A Deputy:

See who is talking.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----that the Oireachtas does not matter. The bottom line is that there was no debate on this. There never was a debate on the establishment of Irish Water or the legislation that underpinned it because all Stages were rammed through the House in about three or four hours.

Deputy Cowen has written to Irish Water to seek a meeting but he was surprised to learn that the Labour Party had already met the company. Deputy Cowen told me that he had been trying to get a meeting with them for the last two or three months, yet an internal Fine Gael committee is hauling them in. It seems that Irish Water has to be accountable to the Fine Gael Party but not to anybody else. That is the bottom line.

Can we get an assurance from the Tánaiste? At the time, the previous Ministers, the former Deputy Hogan and Deputy O'Dowd, were all dodging parliamentary questions. They said it was not a matter for them to answer parliamentary questions in here.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Join the Fine Gael Party.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is the Chief Whip, Deputy Kehoe's, attitude. It is jackboot stuff.

A Deputy:

Here we go again.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Seán Conlan knows all about it. That is how you guys run it. You might run the Fine Gael operation like that but do not think you are going to get away with running the Oireachtas like that.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin should watch his back. He should look behind him.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I want an assurance from the Government that Irish Water will come before the relevant Oireachtas committee to answer questions that many people have.

As regards the forthcoming finance Bill, there has been a considerable lack of detail in the health budget for 2015. The HSE deficit could hit €500 million. The comprehensive expenditure report published on Wednesday by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, states that departmental heads are progressing a range of measures saving €130 million, and income generation measures of €330 million, estimated to have the potential to support expenditure in 2015. No one knows what it actually means. It was in a footnote in the document. Essentially, it is a black hole of approximately €460 million in the health Estimate.

On the Order of Business prior to the budget, I asked the Taoiseach to facilitate a transparent examination of the health budget by an Oireachtas committee. Last year, we were given a false and dishonest health budget on budget day. Everybody remembers the €130 million in alleged medical card probity.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Is there any promised legislation on this, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Stagg is not the Chair.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Just one speaker at a time, please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is legislation and I am coming to that. The bottom line, however, is that we are facing a similar situation this year. Health budgets have been produced that have no credibility at all. Last year we were given false figures. We know that now because through a freedom of information request we obtained HSE documents to the Minister at the time expressing alarm about safety.

When will the Finance Bill be published? Will time be made available for the Oireachtas to debate it? The Government is committed to this and has said that budgetary matters will be transparent. Will we have an opportunity to look at all the submissions made by the HSE to the Department of Health concerning its needs. Health is under enormous pressure.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I am calling the Tánaiste to reply. We cannot have a detailed debate now.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Operations are being cancelled and operating theatres have been closed. That is what is going on right now. There should be far greater transparency for the health Estimate than has been provided to date, including last year. Such transparency was committed to by the Government a long time ago but it has not been realised in the context of the health Estimate.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I do agree that Irish Water should be prepared to communicate with the Fianna Fáil Party or, indeed, with other political parties if they are requested to do so.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Or the Oireachtas.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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They were requested to do so because Labour Party Deputies wanted two particular issues addressed. One was the fact that often when Irish Water is phoned, it is a lo-call number, and people can be left waiting for answers for a fairly long period of time. That has been generally discussed.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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What about the box number?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I have been approached by Deputies from all parties in the House on the second issue which is a request for an information line to be available to public representatives who get queries from constituents about Irish Water. It is perfectly reasonable that they should be able to get those answers. I am told that Irish Water is examining that with a view to putting in some kind of TD inquiry line, as the Department of Social Protection does. I do not know for certain when that will happen.

What the Deputy has described Deputy Cowen as doing is perfectly reasonable. I expect that Irish Water will communicate with him-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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With the Oireachtas.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----to make information available or have a discussion with Fianna Fáil Deputies.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, with the Oireachtas.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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That is a matter for the Whips who can have such a discussion.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Tánaiste not think Irish Water should come before the Oireachtas?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I favour Irish Water having communications with the different political parties and with the Oireachtas. It is a publicly-owned company and is responsible in terms of public accountability. I am sure it will provide public accountability - as is required of similar public utility bodies - to this House on its own operations.

The Deputy's other query concerned the Finance Bill which will be published next Thursday. It will come before the House on Second Stage in the first half of November. The Whips will give the Fianna Fáil finance spokesperson the detailed information on that, as well as the usual courtesies concerning deadlines and other timings for the Bill.

As regards the health budget, budget 2015 is the first budget increase in seven years but big problems and challenges are still facing the health system in 2015.

1 o’clock

The Minister, Deputy Varadkar, is confident the targets are achievable. I am particularly happy that the Minister has committed to the roll-out of BreastCheck for women aged 65 to 69 years. It is important. A further €35 million has been ring-fenced for mental health services. The Fianna Fáil spokesperson on health raised the point last week and in addition we have extra money for step-down facilities, which are important. With regard to the health Estimate, there is a significant increase in funding for the health services.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I asked about Oireachtas scrutiny. It took 12 months for the document to be obtained from the HSE through a freedom of information request.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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There is the normal Oireachtas scrutiny in respect of health. I am sure the Fianna Fáil spokesman will speak to the Minister about it.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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This is not Question Time.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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One of the many groups disappointed by the budget is the carers group. In budget 2013, the respite care grant was disgracefully cut by €325. I am sure the Tánaiste knows the payment is a lifeline for almost 80,000 carers and their families. The Tánaiste should right the wrong done to these families and take advantage of the social welfare legislation to restore a necessary payment for these families. Can the Tánaiste tell us if she is prepared to do so? Statements have been issued by carers and their organisations and they are deeply angry and upset at the failure to reverse the cut. It should have featured as part of the budget given that the Tánaiste tells us she is lifting austerity.

Derek Keating (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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That is not relevant to the Order of Business.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The second issue concerns the JJ Rhattigan and Co. workers at Kishoge Community College in Lucan. JJ Rhattigan and Co. has been contracted by the Department of Education and Skills to build a school. I understand this is not the only school they have been contracted to build. The firm is in dispute with the workers because it has broken the law on the basic rights and entitlements of the workers. The workers were at the gate today speaking to Deputies.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Can the Deputy ask a question on this?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I do not know if they got to speak to the Tánaiste. What regulatory, legislative or political response does the Tánaiste offer to workers who are at their wits end? Their basic rights have been trampled on and the law has been broken. They have no comfort or statutory protection.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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With regard to carers and the wonderful work they do for the people they care for, the Deputy is aware they will be among the principal beneficiaries of the partial restoration of the Christmas bonus. For an individual carer, this means an additional payment in December. In respect of the individual, if the family of the carer is in receipt of social welfare the amount will be higher. It will be in the region of €60 or €70 and more if the family is involved. It is a small amount, which I appreciate, but we have not been able to do all that we would like to do in respect of social welfare in the budget. We have been able to do that.

A commitment has been given to include carers in the €100 water support payment. Carers will receive some support from the budget. I would love to be able to reverse every one of the spending cuts made, including the €16.80 reduction in the weekly payments made by the Fianna Fáil-led Government before the last election. People with disabilities and older people are the two types of people carers care for and the living alone allowance will increase in respect of people with a disability and older people who live alone. Although we have not been able to do as much as we would like, we have made a substantial provision for improving payments to carers and having them share in some of the €200 million additional funding put into the social welfare budget. It is not as much as I would like and hopefully next year and the year after we will be able to do more but that is what we have been able to do this year. We have had to restore the economy and increase employment so that we can provide for payments and services to important people who do wonderful work, like carers.

I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Gerald Nash, who is dealing with labour issues to contact Deputy McDonald about the JJ Rhattigan and Co. dispute. It has also been before the courts and I am not aware of the detail of the court case.