Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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1. To ask the Minister for Defence further to the decision to reduce the number of Army brigades from three to two within a Defence Forces strength of 9,500 personnel, if the then three operational commanders of the Army were part of a formally constituted prior consultation or study process to advise on the personnel, intelligence, operational, logistical and deployability implications of such a decision; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [20329/14]

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps the Leas-Cheann Comhairle might advise us on this issue. When we start Question Time late because we do not have a quorum, additional time should be made available to us.

This question focuses on the unilateral decision made by the Minister to move from a three to a two brigade structure in the Defence Forces. I ask the Minister to indicate whether there was formal consultation with the operational commanders of the three brigades in advance of the decision.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Department of Defence has civil and military elements, with Defence Forces headquarters being the military element. The Chief of Staff who is head of Defence Forces headquarters is my principal military adviser, while the Secretary General of the Department of Defence is my principal defence policy adviser. Military command is vested directly in the general officers commanding Army brigades, the Defence Forces training centre, the Air Corps and the flag officer commanding the Naval Service. However, for matters relating to the overall management of the Defence Forces, including organisation of the Defence Forces, the Chief of Staff is the appropriate source of military advice. The decision to undertake a major reorganisation of the Defence Forces within a two brigade structure was progressed within this well established overall management framework.

Following my decision to initiate a major reorganisation of the Defence Forces, encompassing the consolidation of three under-strength Army brigades into two full strength brigades, I tasked the Secretary General and the Chief of Staff with developing detailed proposals for my consideration. A joint civil-military group was established to progress this work and I understand there was broad consultation within the military organisation in this regard. This shaped the final proposals. In addition, the strategic management committee provided a forum for discussing the work of the group.

Final proposals for the reorganisation of the Permanent Defence Force, agreed between the Chief of Staff and the Secretary General, were forwarded for my consideration in July 2012 and I accepted them in full. I also accepted further proposals for the reorganisation of the Reserve Defence Force following the completion of a value for money review in November 2012.

I am satisfied that the reorganisation has maintained the operational capacity of the Defence Forces to the greatest extent possible within the available resource envelope. It has allowed the Permanent Defence Force to continue to fulfil all roles assigned to it. This remains a key focus and I will continue to work closely with the Chief of Staff and the Secretary General in that regard.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I have the height of respect for the current and previous Chiefs of Staff and Secretaries General of the Department. Nonetheless, I put it to the Minister that it indicates a weakness in the process he applied that there was no consultation or formal study of the personnel, intelligence, operational, logistical and deployment implications for the Department and the brigades and that no consultation took place with the brigade commanders. I accept the Minister's point that with a force of just 9,500, a three brigade structure is not ideal, but it would not have resulted in any reduction in operational outputs in the training or deployment capacity of the Defence Forces. However, real problems have emerged as a result of the decision the Minister took, a decision he took unilaterally in advance of the Green Paper and White Paper process. It appears that he took the decision without either he or the then Chief of Staff having any engagement with the relevant commanders.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I am not aware of the problems the Deputy has said have emerged. If there are particular problems he wishes to bring to my attention, I will ensure they are addressed. As he knows, a three brigade Army structure was adopted in the 1990s when the strength of the Permanent Defence Force was set at approximately 11,500 personnel. This structure was retained when the White Paper on Defence in 2000 revised the ceiling to 10,500 personnel. However, it was no longer viable to retain a three brigade structure with a ceiling of 9,500 personnel, the approximate strength of the Defence Forces when I became Minister for Defence. The Defence Forces were heading towards a position where, if we had not received additional financial allocations, the numbers would have dipped below 8,000 within 18 to 24 months. At a level of 9,500 which we set as the objective strength of the Permanent Defence Force, there was too great an imbalance between the administrative support and operational elements within the three brigade structure. This made the retention of a three brigade structure completely non-viable, as opposed to the viable two brigade structure we now have in place.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Minister accept that retaining the three brigade structure would have allowed the Army to retain the structural architecture to expand in times of crisis and need, retain operational situational awareness in critical parts along the Border with Northern Ireland and, critically, retain operational command and control structures close to where operational outputs were being delivered? I put it to him that to suggest operational oversight of Permanent Defence Force and Reserve units in County Donegal can be managed effectively from Rathmines is not credible. I would go so far as to say it indicates a level of recklessness in terms of State security. It is equally not credible to suggest units in Galway can be overseen from Cork. These are just two of the problems that can be identified. We engaged with the Minister here and had discussions on previous parliamentary questions about other operational difficulties faced by members of the Defence Forces as a result of the decisions taken by him.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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What the Deputy is suggesting is that we have in place an architecture, but that we do not have the numbers that would allow it to make sense. The architecture the Deputy's colleagues had in place while in government was based on a strength of 11,500 for a three brigade structure. When I entered government and assumed the position of Minister for Defence, there was a strength of 9,500. Therefore, if we are talking about architecture, many of the rooms in that house were empty and did not allow for the flexibility the Deputy suggests. If there was an emergency, we could not suddenly find an extra 2,000 members for the Defence Forces overnight. On the basis of the financial envelope I had inherited from my predecessor, I could not have recruited members to the Defence Forces in 2012 and 2013, as we did. While no study has been completed, I can tell the Deputy from my experience and engagement with officers and enlisted personnel, both at home and on overseas missions, that I am satisfied the organisational changes in the Permanent Defence Force have brought positive improvements in the deployability of personnel and the sustainability of the force.