Dáil debates

Thursday, 3 April 2014

10:15 am

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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7. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade the diplomatic efforts that are being made by the Irish Government to protest about the mass death sentences imposed on over 500 members of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt; if he will demand that these sentences are over-turned; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15394/14]

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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12. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade if his attention has been drawn to the mass sentencing to death of 529 Muslim Brotherhood members in Egypt; his views on the judicial procedures in this case and the capital punishment sentences handed out; and if he has raised any concerns with the Egyptian authorities. [15393/14]

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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23. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade his views on recent events in Egypt where 529 persons have been sentenced to death; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15399/14]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This is where the hypocrisy is exposed. Europe jumps up and down and states it is fighting for self-determination and human rights in Ukraine and that it is to impose sanctions. It claims its justification in this regard but adopts a different approach to Egypt, where 529 Muslims have been sentenced to death by mass political execution by a brutal military regime based on trumped-up political charges. Where are the sanctions or calls for urgent action in this case? Where are the emergency debates in the Dáil about this? They are not happening, such is the Government's hypocrisy.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 7, 12 and 23 together.

Ireland is strongly opposed to capital punishment under all circumstances. Opposition to the death penalty is also a core principle of the European Union’s external relations policies.

The verdict of the Minya court, which issued 529 death sentences on individuals convicted of a variety of offences, including the murder of a policeman, after a two-day trial, is extremely troubling and poses very serious questions for the conduct of the rule of law in Egypt. It is impossible to see how this trial could be regarded as in any real way meeting basic requirements of due process and the right to a fair trial, with most of those accused tried in absentia and many deprived of adequate legal representation. The swiftness of this extraordinary trial contrasts very sharply to the failure to date to ensure accountability in the many instances of security force responsibility for the killing of hundreds of protestors last summer. The verdicts issued by the court in Minya have yet to be confirmed. I hope that all possible appeal procedures will be employed to review urgently these appalling sentences.

There has been widespread international criticism of the verdicts issued in Minya, including by the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights. On behalf of the European Union, High Representative Ashton issued a statement on 25 March expressing utmost concern and reiterating that the Union opposes capital punishment under all circumstances. The High Representative also raised this issue directly with Egyptian Foreign Minister Nabil Fahmy when they met earlier this week. Minister of State Deputy Joe Costello, who was representing Ireland at the same meeting, also had a brief meeting with him and raised our concerns. Further diplomatic measures to convey the European Union's concern and support for the High Representative's representation remain under consideration. There have been extensive discussions by EU member states in Brussels and Cairo on how to deal most effectively with the court verdict and, in particular, how best to support the appeals process in Egypt. These discussions are ongoing and will continue while the legal appeals process remains under way in Egypt. This is expected to take some further weeks, but will remain an issue of high priority for Ireland.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am very heartened to hear clear and unequivocal condemnation of the sentences. While this is positive, why is there such a contrast between the approaches to Ukraine and Egypt? Five hundred and twenty-nine people are to be executed by the military regime in Egypt based on trumped-up charges but there is no talk of sanctions or urgent action. If the Russians decided to execute 529 people in Ukraine tomorrow, what would the Minister of State be doing or saying now? There would be emergency sessions of the United Nations, immediate sanctions, sabre rattling and probably talk of military action. I would not be in favour of military action but of an emergency response and the imposition of hard sanctions to show the proposed action is acceptable. It is a question of not trading with Egypt, breaking off diplomatic relations with it and using every bit of power at our disposal to stop it engaging in mass political executions that are essentially to reconsolidate the dictatorship of Mubarak under a new name.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this extremely worrying breach of human rights. I must emphasise two points in response to his questions. The events are exceptionally worrying and disturbing. I have already outlined the contact that has occurred at EU level and the further discussions that will take place on the matter.

I emphasise again how exceptionally disturbing and worrying these events are. I have already outlined to the Deputy the contact that has happened at EU level. As I have said, further discussions will take place in this regard. I want to clarify exactly where we stand in relation to the cases that have correctly been raised by the Deputy. It is important to say clearly that the sentences have yet to be fully confirmed by the court. The Grand Mufti, who is required to issue a judgment under Islamic law, is due to decide whether to confirm this judgment towards the end of this month. No executions have taken place. The most recent execution in Egypt took place three years ago. I would have condemned it then if I had the opportunity to do so that I have now. In light of the seriousness of this situation, it is worth emphasising for the purposes of clarity that these sentences have yet to be fully confirmed under Egyptian law. The EU and Ireland are exceptionally worried about the magnitude of the sentences and the use of a penalty, the use of which we are fundamentally opposed to.

10:25 am

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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While I appreciate the clarity of the Minister of State's response, I am conscious that the sense of urgency in this case seems to be smaller than in other cases. Some 529 people are under threat of execution.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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It is a substantial number of people

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Why are Government or all-party motions not being tabled on this matter? Why are we not having an emergency debate on this issue like the debate on the situation in Ukraine that will take place later today? I do not understand why we are not taking a hard line with a regime that is essentially trying to drown in blood, or repress by means of fear and intimidation, the democratic revolution of the Egyptian people. We should make no bones about the fact that this is what the regime is doing. The Egyptian embassy is still happily operating in this city. I suspect that we are doing big trade with Egypt, for example, by selling beef to that country. What does the Government intend to do if the Egyptian authorities do not immediately indicate that they intend to drop these trumped-up charges and end any talk of executing people? Given that the current regime in Egypt executed a load of members of the Muslim Brotherhood outside a mosque, it seems that this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I am no fan of the Muslim Brotherhood, but it is clear to me in this instance that the regime is guilty and has blood all over its hands.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I would like to emphasise what has already happened, and what has yet to happen, in this regard. When High Representative Ashton met the Egyptian Foreign Minister on behalf of the EU on Monday, she made it clear that there is a high level of worry at EU level about the possible imposition on a shocking number of people of a penalty to which we are fundamentally and irrevocably opposed. I reiterate that these sentences have yet to be confirmed under Egyptian law. I hope the Deputy recognises that. The sentences could be confirmed towards the end of this month. The Deputy referred earlier to executions as if they had happened.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I did not.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I am not saying for a moment that the Deputy did so deliberately. I remind the House that these sentences have yet to be confirmed. In the meantime, Ireland and the EU will continue to emphasise our worry and make it clear that it would be unacceptable for such a penalty to be carried out.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Over 1,000 people have been killed in Egypt since a military coup overthrew Morsi's elected Government. How many people have been killed in Crimea? When it was suggested that the United States might stop sending military hardware to Egypt because it was not being used in a very nice way, that proposal was blocked by the arms manufacturers. The manufacturers in question have a vested interest in ensuring military hardware is not prevented from being sent to Egypt because they are making money out of it. I did not hear the EU say anything when that happened. Perhaps it did not have a problem with it. Over 16,000 people are in jail in Egypt now. As a matter of interest, has the Tánaiste been to the Egyptian Embassy in Dublin? Maybe the Minister of State answered that question but I did not hear him. I do not know whether the Tánaiste has made such a visit, but if he has not, why is that the case? Has the Tánaiste said anything to the Egyptian authorities about the three Al Jazeera journalists who have spent over 100 days in jail since they were charged with spreading bad news and accused of supporting the Muslim Brotherhood?

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for his questions. I would like to remind him, in response to his comments about the export of arms, that a number of measures were agreed at an extraordinary meeting of the Foreign Affairs Council in August 2013. The measures in question, which relate to the violent suppression of the protests mentioned by Deputy Boyd Barrett, have since been implemented. I will explain what they involved. The EU decided to suspend military co-operation with Egypt and to deny export licences for any goods - including arms, obviously - that could be used in the violent suppression of democratic assembly, which is a fundamental human right. These EU measures are still in force. They will not be lifted until the EU's concerns have been dealt with. Reference has been made to the forthcoming elections in Egypt, which are vital if many of the difficulties in that country are to be dealt with. The EU will have a full-scale monitoring mission in place for the duration of the elections to ensure they are fair, peaceful and carried out in accordance with law. I want to emphasise again that our worries in this regard were articulated and communicated by the EU on Monday of this week.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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The Minister of State has said that we are going to monitor the elections. It seems that we were okay with the military takeover. The head of the military is going to stand in those elections and will probably win. The EU will oversee that. When the majority of the people of Crimea voted to join Russia, the EU had a huge problem with that. The Minister of State mentioned that he was in the Baltic states recently. People forget that Crimea was part of Russia for over 700 years before Khrushchev foolishly decided to give it as a present to Ukraine in 1954 to buy favour there. It was a very poor political decision. Most of the people of Crimea want to be part of Russia. Similarly, the people of Egypt decided in an election to put the Muslim Brotherhood into power. I am not saying the Muslim Brotherhood are lovely fellows, but it is clear that the Egyptian people voted for them, only for them to be overthrown by the military. When Obama and Kerry were asked what was going on, and whether they intended to do anything about it, they said that the people had spoken. I do not know how anyone can defend that. While I am glad to hear that the EU has imposed some sanctions on Egypt, I would like to hear what the Minister of State has to say about the suggestion that the EU needs to reprimand the US for its continued support of an unelected military power in Egypt.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I would like to remind the House of the breadth of the measures introduced by the EU in response to some of the issues mentioned by the Deputy. They relate, for example, to the export of products that could be used for the kinds of behaviours and practices that we absolutely condemn. The Deputy drew an analogy between what is happening in Crimea and what is happening in Egypt. The key point I would make again with regard to Crimea is that international procedures and processes, which are recognised in international law-----

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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America abandons those processes most of the time.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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-----allow people to peacefully determine their own futures, where their borders should be and how they want to engage with other countries. That did not happen in Crimea. As I have made clear at all times, the EU has condemned what has happened in this case. The Deputy asked whether further steps have been taken by Ireland. Early last month, we sponsored a cross-regional statement on the human rights situation in Egypt at the UN Human Rights Council. Our ambassador to Cairo has attended meetings and spoken with the Egyptian authorities. These issues have been discussed in full. The discussions in question took place before the court issued the verdict that has been mentioned.

That is why the meeting took place with High Representative Ashton on Monday at which we emphasised the concern over what we have here. Ireland, through its participation in the United Nations Human Rights Council has continued to highlight our concerns over some of the developments in Egypt.

10:35 am

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade concerned about aspects of the trial of the Muslim Brotherhood members? Most of us would have concerns over the volume of the trials, the lack of fairness, reports that lawyers were not allowed in the court and that defence lawyers were not allowed to challenge witnesses. There is a litany of concern over the case. People have concerns over the Muslim Brotherhood and so on, but this is a fallacy. This smacks of the show trials in the former Soviet Union. It is not about fair play or justice. What are Government representatives saying privately to the Egyptian authorities and more importantly what will they do publicly on the matter?

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Through our participation in the United Nations Human Rights Council we make clear our concerns over the human rights situation in Egypt. In the earlier answers I gave to Deputy Wallace in particular and to Deputy Boyd Barrett, I made clear the great concern we have over the use of a penalty to which we are fundamentally opposed and the process by which this stage of the judgment has been reached.

The final stage of this judgment has yet to be fully confirmed under Egyptian law and through the Egyptian processes. We believe it is due to take place by the end of this month. In the interim, we and the European Union will continue to make clear our grave level of concern regarding what has happened here. Ultimately, issues such as this do not contribute to supporting the people of Egypt to achieve a safe and secure future in the midst of having to confront major challenges along the way. That is why an issue such as this is of such concern.

Question No. 8 answered with Question with No. 6.