Dáil debates

Thursday, 3 April 2014

Other Questions

Northern Ireland Issues

10:35 am

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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9. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade the extent of his recent engagements with the Northern Ireland Minister for Justice and the British Secretary of State in Northern Ireland over security and prisoner issues in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15372/14]

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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15. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade the discussions he has had recently with the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Northern Ireland Minister for Justice, Mr. David Ford, MLA, regarding prisoner issues and security in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15396/14]

Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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31. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade the recent contact he has had with the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, and the Northern Ireland Minister for Justice regarding prisoner and security issues. [15403/14]

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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The question relates to prisoners in Northern Ireland. Deputies Clare Daly, Éamon Ó Cuív and Maureen O'Sullivan and I have visited Maghaberry and other prisons on many occasions. We would be very wary that problems are developing. A more rational approach needs to be taken to dealing with prisoners. We are not showing any sympathy for any mad republican notions. We are just interested in prisoners' rights. We believe that a more fair-minded and rational approach would be very positive and would help move things forward in Northern Ireland.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 9, 15 and 31 together.

The Tánaiste has regular comprehensive discussions with the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Ms Theresa Villiers, MP, most recently on Monday, 31 March, about the overall situation in the North and the state of the peace process. They discussed the security situation, including attacks on the PSNI, attacks and threats of attack on prison officers and other criminal acts by so-called dissident republicans as well as attacks by loyalist paramilitaries and criminals on the PSNI and communities. The Secretary of State has in her recent statements restated that the national security threat level in Northern Ireland continues to be severe. I deplore recent attacks on the Police Service of Northern Ireland officers and on prison officers which have to be seen for what they are. They are unlawful criminal acts with no moral or political justification.

The Tánaiste has raised a small number of prisoner cases which have arisen from the exercise by the Secretary of State of certain non-devolved powers regarding national security issues. Irish officials in the British-Irish intergovernmental secretariat in Belfast monitor such cases on an ongoing basis.

The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, meets regularly with the Northern Ireland Minister for Justice, Mr. David Ford, MLA, to discuss policing and criminal justice matters, as well as other matters of mutual concern. In that regard, I should note the high level of co-operation that exists on justice issues between the two jurisdictions, and in particular the excellent relationship and co-operation which exists between An Garda Síochána and the PSNI.

The Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade also has regular and ongoing discussions about the situation in Northern Ireland with the Minister, Mr. Ford, MLA. Last October, he met the Minister, Mr. Ford, MLA, as part of a two-day programme in Derry and was briefed by the then PSNI district commander in Derry, Assistant Chief Constable Stephen Martin, about its policing work on the ground there. More recently, the Tánaiste attended the Alliance Party conference in Belfast on 22 March, where he met the Minister, Mr. Ford, MLA, and where he spoke of the Government’s commitment to ensuring that the devolution of policing and justice works to protect communities all over the island of Ireland from criminal elements.

The Government will continue to work with the British Government and with the elected leaders of Northern Ireland to ensure that political progress and peace continues to advance in Northern Ireland in line with the principles, values and institutions of the Good Friday Agreement.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I also deplore attacks on PSNI officers and prison officers. We should avoid giving oxygen to dissident IRA groups, which is what is happening. Treating the prisoners badly aids the more extreme elements and gives them oxygen.

Certain prisoners, including Mr. Paul Duffy and his brother, Shane, have been released only on condition that they do not live with their families or even in the same county. Where is the logic of that? If the Northern Ireland authorities want a guy to be rehabilitated into the community, do they not believe that it would be a good idea for him to be with his wife and kids? It beggars belief and I do not see the logic in it. The Minister of State should address that with the Northern Ireland authorities because it does not make any sense.

Strip searches of prisoners going into and out of court are continuing. Even though prisoners never leave the sight or hand of security officials, the authorities still insist on strip-searching them when they come back. It is only about degrading them and it has nothing to do with security. We are very keen that there be no more trouble and that the people who would like to cause trouble are not given oxygen. To see that happen we must challenge the irrational approach to some of these issues.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I fully appreciate the Deputy's objective in raising this question, which is to ensure that peace in Northern Ireland is not destabilised in any way. I certainly would not mean to infer that the Deputies' questions are motivated by anything other than that objective. I share that objective and I understand the context for it.

I make two points in response. I absolutely deplore the threats that have been made to prison officers by so-called dissident republicans, as does the Deputy.

Any negotiation or resolution of the situation in that prison can only come about when that threat is lifted. The Tánaiste discussed this matter with Secretary of State, Ms Villiers, at the start of this week.

In regard to the Deputy's other question on the operation of policy within that prison and elsewhere, as she knows, issues in regard to policing and many aspects of justice have been devolved to Northern Ireland, including to the Northern Ireland Assembly, and there are bodies in place to deal with some of the issues to which she has referred. There is the Northern Ireland Prison Service, which implements policy in that area, and also the Northern Ireland Prisoner Ombudsman, which operates independently of the prison service and which has the legal capacity to investigate fully complaints in regard to the treatment of prisoners and the alleged violation of human rights.

10:45 am

Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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We have also discussed prisoner issues with Theresa Villiers and David Ford through the ad hoc group mentioned by Deputy Wallace. The point we want to emphasise is that it does not seem to us that there is sufficient awareness of the serious potential of this issue to destabilise the situation. The Minister of State is aware there was a dirty protest for a year and a half which ended on an understanding that certain improvements would be made. Tragically, the ending of that protest coincided with the appalling murder of David Black. Our information is that the situation inside that prison at the moment is very unstable because the conditions of the ending of that protest have not been seen to be met in terms of strip searching and agreements on movement on landings, where there was an understanding this would be freed up. These have not been dealt with and there is a serious problem which I believe our Government must emphasise.

The last point is the condition of prisoners on release. People like Martin Corey and Marian Price are old enough and both are quite sick. Some others were asked to wear an electronic tag, which is completely inappropriate, in my opinion. There is a list of people with whom they cannot associate. In one ridiculous scenario, Marian Price was in a supermarket and an old associate came up, and she had to say: "Get away. If I am seen talking to you, I am in breach of the conditions of my release." Our Government must stress the importance of these issues, including for human rights reasons.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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In regard to the two points the Deputy makes, I have already made clear that the Tánaiste earlier this week discussed the situation of the threat that is in place in regard to officers and members of staff working in this prison. That must be lifted to ensure those prison officers have the ability to do their very difficult work safely. When that threat is lifted, it will create the environment within which other and further issues can be dealt with.

I understand the point the Deputy is making. As I said earlier, we understand the ability of issues like this to destabilise what is a difficult and fraught environment and the consequences that could have within the prison and across Northern Ireland. That is why the Tánaiste raised the general issue of the threat with the Secretary of State, Ms Villiers. However, I must emphasise that very important powers were devolved to the Northern Ireland Assembly, and for the right reasons, namely, to ensure leaders of communities in Northern Ireland have the ability to make decisions that matter to their communities. We respect that and believe it is essential to the future stability and security of the North. It is within this framework that those decisions are made.

As I said to Deputy Wallace, there is an ombudsman in place to deal with concerns people have and there is a Northern Ireland Prison Service in place to deal with what are very difficult and challenging circumstances. We are all united, as noted on the earlier question put to me by Deputy Smith, in our desire to see the Haass negotiations reach a strong and successful conclusion and ensure the kind of threats we are referring to are lifted, and that members of the PSNI and the Northern Ireland Prison Service, as Deputy Daly herself has said, are not subject to the kind of appalling murder and threats they have been subject to in the past.

Written Answers follow Adjournment.