Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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125. To ask the Minister for Defence his plans to review the 21 year limit for those members of the Defence Forces who remain fit and able, who are in good health and who are well capable of continuing to serve; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13940/14]

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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Question No. 1 deals with an issue raised here previously with the Minister. It asks if he will again review the position of those soldiers serving as members of the Permanent Defence Force with 21 year contracts, many of whom are coming to a point at which their 21 years will have been served. If the Minister persists with his insistence that they retire, it will have profound implications for them.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The unsatisfactory age and fitness profile of the Permanent Defence Force was an issue of serious concern during the 1990s and the subject of severe criticism in a series of external reports, mainly Price Waterhouse Consultants and the Efficiency Audit Group, EAG. One of the key areas identified for urgent action by the EAG was the development of a manpower policy with an emphasis on lowering the age profile of Permanent Defence Force personnel. The EAG's report was accepted by the Government in 1995.

In an effort to alleviate the situation, the Government had already decided in 1993 to enlist personnel on a five year contract basis, following consultation with PDFORRA, Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association. In 1997 agreement was reached with PDFORRA on a new manpower policy for the Defence Forces. This policy, applying to personnel enlisted after 1 January 1994, provided that service for private soldiers would initially be for five years, with the option of extending it to a maximum of 12 years, subject to meeting standards of medical and physical fitness and conduct. Longer periods of service were envisaged for non-commissioned officers.

In 2004 PDFORRA submitted a claim under the conciliation and arbitration scheme for a further review of the terms of service applying to personnel enlisting in the Permanent Defence Force after 1 January 1994.

A set of criteria was agreed with PDFORRA to provide longer careers for those who enlisted post 1 January 1994 while continuing to address the Government’s objective of having an appropriate age profile to meet the challenges of a modern Defence Forces. The criteria require that any person re-engaging after 12 years' service must be able to continue to operate at their current level both at home and overseas on an ongoing basis. Re-engagement is subject to the individual soldier meeting specified criteria in regard to physical fitness, medical category, successful completion of military courses of instruction, service overseas and conduct ratings.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his reply but I regret that I do not sense the Minister is willing to change tack. We are all committed to having in the Defence Forces men and women who are fit and able to carry out the onerous responsibilities they have from time to time. Nonetheless, we are now looking at a situation where people in their late 30s and early 40s will be forced out of the Defence Forces. They will be forced out into an extremely challenging employment market. Many of them have young families and significant mortgages and they will not be able to secure employment. That is something I am concerned about and I expect the Minister is concerned about it also. PDFORRA has highlighted the economic implications for the State. It suggests the cost to the State of pushing some of these young people into unemployment is €20,000 per year.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Like any Member of the House, I am anxious to ensure those who have given long service in the Defence Forces have every possible opportunity to obtain alternative employment when they leave. Many leave the Defence Forces having gained a great many skills that facilitate obtaining employment. In the context of the age issue, it is a serious matter to ensure we have an appropriate age profile within the Defence Forces to facilitate it undertaking operational matters and meeting the obligations that fall on the Defence Forces internationally and in assisting the civil powers domestically. The point I was making is that where someone is re-engaged after 12 years' service, the maximum service period for these personnel is as follows. Enlisted personnel, up to and including the rank of corporal and equivalent Naval Service rank may not serve beyond 21 years service. Enlisted personnel in the rank of sergeant and equivalent Naval Service rank may be permitted to continue in service up to the age of 50 years. Enlisted personnel in all higher ranks may serve to the age of 56 years. With the approach of 2015, the first effects of the agreement whereby privates and corporals may not serve beyond 21 years will be felt by Permanent Defence Force members in those ranks. A claim has been received from PDFORRA for a further review of the matter. In accordance with normal procedures the association’s claim is being dealt with under the conciliation and arbitration scheme for members of the Defence Forces. As discussions under the scheme are confidential to the parties involved it is not appropriate for me to comment further on the matter at this time, other than to emphasise that in dealing with this issue the manpower and operational needs of the Defence Forces must be the primary consideration.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

It is intended to finalise negotiations with the representative association within the next few weeks.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I accept that the operational needs of the Defence Forces are primary but in an international comparison, we are looking at forced retirement between 39 years and the early 40s, compared to Malta at 55 years of age; Belgium, 56 years; Finland, 55 years; and Australia, 60 years of age. No one wants to go back to the period when we had a style of Dad's army. We are talking about retaining people in the service of the State who are physically capable of carrying out the duties assigned to them.

The Defence Forces has some of the best trained technicians in the country. They have been trained over a four-year period at a cost of €200,000 to the Exchequer. To cast them to the wind has profound implications for the Department of Defence and its budget.

I hope there will be some flexibility on the Minister's part in how he approaches the negotiations on the individuals in question.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy is aware, I cannot comment; it would be inappropriate for me to do so during the negotiations. What he is raising and, in effect, protesting against is a policy that his party stood over in government for over 14 years. It is quite extraordinary that he should now be exercised about this matter from the Opposition benches. What I am exercised about is ensuring we follow proper procedures within the conciliation and arbitration service. It is intended to finalise negotiations with the representative associations within the next few weeks and it is important that I say no more about that aspect of the matter. The Deputy is correct that we have within the Defence Forces some very well qualified personnel in various technical areas and it is these qualifications which facilitate them in gaining employment. Some of the states the Deputy has mentioned where members of their defence forces at lower levels are 55 or 60 years of age have far bigger defence forces than we do. Our objective is to have a force with a strength of 9,500. Is the Deputy seriously suggesting it is in the interests of the State or the public interest to have the substantial majority of members of the Defence Forces in the 50 to 60 year age group?

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister knows that I am not.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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We are recruiting 400 new members to the Defence Forces this year by virtue of the fact that certain numbers retire annually and that we can bring new young people into the Defence Forces and give them job opportunities that are not currently available to them.