Dáil debates

Thursday, 27 February 2014

Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions

Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission Issues

9:50 am

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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4. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the remit, resources and powers given to the High Court judge led review of the Garda Ombudsman Commission investigation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9778/14]

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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The issue that flows from the GSOC bugging controversy is disconcerting. What resources will be made available to Mr. Justice Cooke? What is the exact timeline for him to report? Will he have the imprimatur of the Minister or the Government to interview all relevant parties, including Rits, the outside agency introduced by the Minister late in the process to conduct a peer review?

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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On 18 February, 2014 I gave the Cabinet my assessment of the potential damage to both the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission and the Garda Síochána, and more widely to public confidence in the enforcement of law, from the ongoing controversy relating to reports of unlawful surveillance of GSOC. The manner in which this controversy had continued and the new information I had received in the days beforehand led me to the view that it was in the public interest that measures be taken to ensure that the full truth is established beyond dispute. In the light of that, I and my Cabinet colleagues agreed to the appointment of a retired High Court judge, Mr. Justice Cooke, to inquire into all matters of relevance to the controversy.

The Government subsequently appointed retired High Court judge, Mr. Justice John Cooke, to conduct an independent inquiry into the reports of unlawful surveillance of the GSOC. The terms of reference for the inquiry were agreed by the Government, on the advice of the Attorney General and are available on the website of the Department of the Taoiseach. Mr. Justice Cooke has been asked to report on these matters within eight weeks or as soon as may be thereafter. He will be provided with any technical and secretarial assistance he requires, and I expect that all parties will co-operate fully with him.

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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I want the Minister to expand on the peer review conducted by Rits. It seems curious that the Minister brought in this company to second-guess much of what was said at the committee and reported by Verrimus. A lot of briefing of the media was going on and we witness Verrimus, a UK-based company, issuing public statements to correct what it described as highly inaccurate reporting. Why did the Minister engage Rits to carry out a peer review?

What were its terms of reference? Is it a comparable company, in terms of stature, ability and resourcing, to Verrimus? How does it compare? How much to did the peer review cost? Does it do regular work for the Minister or the Department? Were the Department's procurement guidelines followed in terms of tendering, provision of tax clearance certificates and engaging Rits?

10:00 am

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I am very surprised at the Deputy raising all of those questions but I can understand why he might be asking them. As the Deputy will recall, on Wednesday, 19 February 2014, there was a meeting of the Joint Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions, which lasted for more than four hours and at which I answered extensive questions, including those the Deputy just raised. The Deputy was present briefly at that meeting and many Members of the House who were interested in those issues attended throughout the four hours. I was surprised that the Deputy, having appeared at the meeting, then disappeared and did not raise a single one of those questions at it, all of which the Deputy would see, if he read the transcript, were addressed at some length.

The Deputy did not have any great difficulty in the days leading up to that meeting visiting as many broadcasting stations and participating in as many as possible radio-----

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Why does the Minister not answer the questions?

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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-----and television programmes offered to him to make false charges against me-----

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Why does the Minister not answer the questions?

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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-----and to raise questions he believed to be of interest. In the context of the questions he raised, can I direct the Deputy to read the transcript of the four hour meeting that took place? If he had remained at the meeting and had sufficient interest in addressing those issues, I expect he would not only have known the answers but perhaps might have asked some question at that meeting.

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Yesterday evening in the House, the Minister was asked about comments by the Garda Commissioner, Martin Callanan, at a meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts and he quite conveniently relied on saying that he had not read the transcript. The Minister should not come into the House and give me that load balderdash that I did not read the transcript. I was at the committee meeting but I had a prior engagement I had to attend. My party was represented at the meeting.

Why does the Minister not answer the questions? Why did he engage Rits? He was trying to undermine Verrimus and to create more confusion, more diversions and a smoke screen and to cast doubt of the veracity of the Verrimus report, which GSOC was in possession of. Why does the Minister not answer the questions which I have detailed and put the answers on the record of the House? Why did he engage Rits? What were its terms of reference? Has it done work for the Minister previously? What is its stature in comparison to Verrimus? Is it a comparable company? Did the Department following proper procurement guidelines? Will the Minister answer the questions?

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I think the other engagements the Deputy had last Wednesday were making other allegations against me on the plinth outside Leinster House-----

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Answer the questions.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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-----and then visiting as many broadcast programmes as he could. If the Deputy was really taking this matter seriously and not just trying to engage in party political point scoring, he would have remained at the meeting, would have listened to what was said at it, would have asked the questions he is now asking and would have heard all of them responded to. It is not a question of having to even read the transcript. As a Minister, I cannot attend meetings of the Committee of Public Accounts. As the justice spokesperson of his party, the Deputy professed great concern about the issues relating to GSOC in the seven days leading up to that meeting. Frankly, I was astonished he did not regard it as sufficiently important to remain at the meeting.

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Frankly, I am astonished the Minister did not read the transcript of the Garda Commissioner's appearance at the Committee of Public Accounts. The Minister should judge others by his own standards.