Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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65. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills to offer his assessment of Ireland's standing in university ratings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42252/13]

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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The performance of Irish higher education institutes, HEIs, varies widely in the different ranking systems. This variance clearly demonstrates that caution should be taken in the interpretation of individual placement of HEIs to determine overall quality. In the latest published Times Higher Education world university rankings, Ireland again has two of its seven universities featuring in the top 200, or top 1%, out of 15,000 universities worldwide. Analysis done by the Irish Universities Association shows that this places Ireland seventh in the world for the number of higher education institutes in the top 200 per head of population. Only 26 countries worldwide, out of a total of approximately 195, have universities within the top 200.

Some countries invest heavily in elite institutions. Our focus in this country with the policy of the Department of Education and Science is on advancing performance across an accessible and diverse system of institutions. As a result Ireland is ranked first in the European Union and fourth in the OECD for tertiary attainment rates among 25 to 34 year olds, which also pays dividends for Ireland's competitiveness.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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As the Minister indicated in his reply, we need to be cautious about the different university rankings. Two have been published in recent weeks, the Times Higher Education survey and the QS world university rankings. One had some universities going up and the other had the same universities going down. Trinity College is a case in point.

The Minister pointed out the fact that we are in the top 200 and stated that for a country size our size this was positive by comparison with some of our European neighbours. Spain stands out in particular in the recent results because it has only one university in that bracket and the size of its population is very different from ours. The key point, however, is that we must watch out for is what is happening within our universities. We need to take measurements ourselves in terms of how the quality of our third level education is improving or otherwise.

Recent years have seen spending cut radically to universities at a time when the student intake in many universities has increased by 15% to 20%. If the Minister talks to anyone in the third level sector he will hear how that has been impacting on the quality of education and the service it is providing.

Will the Minister indicate overall where he is taking our third level sector, especially our universities and institutes of technology? There seems to be a sense of drift. Initially the Minister was going to reduce the student registration fee. He has increased that in terms of funding them and there is no bigger vision in terms of how he can ensure quality is not eroded. The fact that we have two in the top 200 is welcome but it will take serious effort to ensure that we keep the quality up.

Eoghan Murphy (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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Over the weekend we heard the view that Ireland has too many universities. This is something I have heard myself in the third level sector. Does the Minister have a view on that comment from the Global Irish Economic Forum?

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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It is fair to say to Deputy McConalogue that the rankings are a reality and they must be responded to. International business organisations involved in foreign direct investment take them into account, although the academics maintain they can be gamed and played and that they do not tell the full story. If it was true that funding alone and the reduction of funding was the dominant factor in falling rankings for universities, then all our universities would have fallen. One cannot rationalise that assertion with the fact that some universities have gone up and others have fallen. That is not to say that we have a financial problem with our universities and third level institutions. This is why, rather than what might appear to Deputy McConalogue to be the case, the sustainability study is being undertaken by the HEA. We are obliging all third level institutions to enter into a serious reconfiguration of their structure and landscape. Deputy McConalogue will be familiar with this. Letterkenny Institute of Technology in his constituency is now linked with the Institute of Technology, Sligo and Galway-Mayo Institute of Technology to form the Connacht Ulster alliance. I would be happy to have a debate about this at some stage should Members wish it.

We do not have too many universities, but we probably would not build the same number of universities today if we were starting from this point and given the position of those built more than 100 years ago or 30 or 40 years ago.

However, 20 or 30 or 40 years ago, we did not have the infrastructure or communications system. In this context, close to 69% of Irish students live at home and because they so do, they are able to attend third level institutions. Were one to centralise them or to spread them further apart, one would put enormous pressure on many young people and their families in trying to go to such institutions. Deputy Eoghan Murphy and I represent a Dublin constituency in which, on a short count, we have access to approximately seven or eight third level institutions that are within a bus ride away from our homes. This is not the Irish average.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with the Minister in the sense that funding is not the only aspect that determines quality of education. As the Minister observed, some universities are rising in the surveys while others are falling. However, one cannot continue down the pathway the Minister has taken of reducing funding and increasing intake. This certainly has been having an impact on pupil-teacher ratios and on the breadth of service that can be provided to students. The Minister should elaborate, if he can, on the timeline to give parity to the sector in respect of what will be its future funding structures.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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There is a considerable amount of duplication and overlapping within the system. There are 39 institutions, 14 of which are institutes of technology and seven of which are universities. Many of them offer similar courses at a time when different institutes or universities could specialise. My Department is trying to get them to quantify, through the Higher Education Authority, what will be the savings in this regard. That study has not been completed and when it is complete - when I use the word "complete", I am talking about the next six months - I will bring to the floor of this Chamber legislation that will enable me or any successor Minister for Education and Skills to incentivise universities to come together, collaborate and achieve economic savings they can retain for themselves. This is not a cost-cutting exercise as it is to be hoped a point has been reached in the budgetary process whereby we are beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel in that regard. However, there is significant overlap and there is the suggestion of waste and duplication. I want to get to the ground floor in that regard before beginning to consider the funding of those institutions. As to whether I will do it over the next 12 months, that is my intention.