Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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73. To ask the Minister for Defence if he has taken the opportunity to read the transcript from the Reserve Defence Force Representative Association which was before the Oireachtas Justice Committee on 24 April 2013; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21410/13]

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I can confirm that I have read the transcript from the appearance of the Reserve Defence Force Representative Association, RDFRA, before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality and have also read the RDFRA written submission to that committee. The completion of the independently chaired value for money review is an important contribution to the reorganisation of the Defence Forces. Implementation of the approach recommended will ensure that the reserve continues to provide the Permanent Defence Force with appropriate additional capacity for contingency situations. It will also maintain a channel for the provision of a well-trained voluntary military contribution from communities at local level.

The value for money review of the Reserve Defence Force was conducted in accordance with the guidelines for such reviews, which are followed by all Departments. In accordance with these guidelines, a steering committee which included members from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform was appointed to oversee the review. The independent chair was drawn from a list maintained by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. The members of the steering committee made their recommendations collectively, having regard to the evidence uncovered during the review.

I note the Reserve Defence Force Representative Association, RDFRA, is not satisfied with the recommendations of the review. However, I was disappointed at the allegations of bias made. This is a slight on the integrity of the steering committee which is grossly unfair and unfounded. The review was comprehensive and systematic. The subsequent reorganisation proposals were recommended by the Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces and the Secretary General of my Department. At no stage was there interference by me, as Minister, with those engaged in conducting the review. Following their appointment, I simply awaited receipt of their report when they had completed their work.

I previously stated I would be willing to listen to points raised by the RDFRA and weigh them on their merits. I note there were two dominant and linked themes within the presentation and discussion, namely, reservists with specialist skills from their civilian lives should be better utilised and called up or mobilised in a paid capacity in non-crisis situations and that the ongoing calling up or mobilisation of reservists should be facilitated by employment protection legislation.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

This matter was comprehensively dealt with in the VFM review. The role of the Reserve Defence Force remains to augment the Permanent Defence Force in crisis situations. The mobilisation of reservists must be justifiable having due regard to both the gravity of the situation and the potential disruption to reservists, their families and employers. I could not justify calling up reservists in the absence of a clear requirement for additional capacity. Of course, it is a very desirable feature of the reserve that volunteers bring a whole range of talents, skills and experience through their commitment. The VFM review did recommend that the utilisation of the skills of members of the reserve should be considered on a voluntary basis and in an unpaid capacity. This represents a balanced approach to utilisation of the reserve.

I will, of course, take other views on board and look forward to further engaging with the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality on this matter in the future.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I have the transcripts of the presentation and the subsequent question and answer session with the RDFRA at the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality. It is clear that it has a significant difficulty with the VFM report and its input to it. One major point that stands out is that of training hours. Unless a member of the Reserve Defence Force has met the statutory requirement of undergoing two weeks training, he or she cannot avail of the gratuity available. The RDFRA has made the point that the number of training hours has been halved, meaning that it is difficult to avail of training. There is also the wider issue of employment legislation that will facilitate Reserve Defence Force members, for whom the majority of their time is spent in making an unpaid voluntary contribution, and give them supports in their places of employment, as is the case in other jurisdictions.

The organisation made many positive contributions at the committee. It is asking for an independent review because it believes the potential and skills Reserve Defence Force members bring to the table could be lost. What is the Minister’s view of an independent review based on the RDFRA’s presentation?

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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We have had an independent VFM review which made a number of key recommendations which are being implemented in the public interest and in that of members of the Reserve. I fully understand and appreciate that people have a difficulty on occasions with change and reform. It always takes a little time for matters to bed down. I know and I am conscious of the fact that there is an amount of re organisation involved in this and that, for some, inconvenience too. I am particularly conscious that each and every member of the Reserve Defence Force is a volunteer, giving up his or her time. Whether we are talking about the payment of a gratuity or a payment for training days, the payment is, of course, very modest and I would not pretend otherwise.

We are trying to ensure the funding available is directed in a way that is in the public interest. In the context of training days, we are trying to ensure matters are designed to encourage people who are members of the Reserve to actively engage. I am conscious that this is a reserve force and that it is in place to fill a gap, should there be a gap to be filled, and in places where the Permanent Defence Force requires assistance. It is not to provide a separate role for the RDF. That is an overwhelming aspect of the background to how we deal with the RDF and how it is trained. I hope the more integrated training that will be provided will focus on particular roles the Reserve may be able to play should it be called upon.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I do not know the answer to the question I am about to ask the Minister. Has he met with the members of the Reserve Defence Force Representative Association to seek the views of its members? It strikes me they are making a constructive contribution to the debate. They are genuinely concerned their members will not be able to meet the requirements in terms of training and they made a statement that the Reserve Defence Force could face being disbanded within three years. I do not know about that, but they have serious concerns. If the Minister has not met them, will he meet them as soon as possible to discuss their presentation and their suggestions? All the Members of this House are sensible people. If there is a layer of civic-minded citizens who want to volunteer and make a contribution to the State in a way that is clearly value for money, we must listen to them. If the Minister has met them, what was the outcome?

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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There was a consultative process by my officials with members of the Reserve Defence Force following the publication of the value for money report. The Permanent Defence Force, PDF, has been engaged with them also in the context of implementing the changes. I have met with members of the reserve previously. I am always happy to meet with members of the reserve and I had the opportunity when I made my presentation to the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality committee, when I was delighted to see that there were members of the reserve in the gallery. I had a very brief conversation with them. I have no difficulty in meeting with them should they want to meet with me, but I am conscious that the value for money recommendations were objectively made by a group who independently examined the way the reserve was working, where there were problems and how those problems should be addressed, not just in the interests of the reserve but also in the public interest, at a time when we must use our resources wisely.