Dáil debates

Wednesday, 17 April 2013

National Lottery Bill 2012: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage

 

Debate resumed on amendment No. 29:In page 15, between lines 30 and 31, to insert the following:“(2) The operator shall be resident in the State.”. - (Deputy Sean Fleming)

3:25 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I was concluding on Deputy Fleming's amendment. He asked me to include these details in the licence. I can confirm that the licence will address the issue, obviously in a manner consistent with EU law. I answered the rest of the questions.

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Just to confirm, the Minister is saying that the issue of having the operator company or parent company resident in the State will be addressed in part of the licence. I am pleased with that.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I move amendment No. 30:

In page 16, to delete lines 7 to 20.
The amendment refers to the section of the Bill which provides for the winding up of An Post National Lottery Company. Over the past 25 years that company has achieved over €12 billion in sales, provided €6 billion in prizes and raised €4 billion for good causes. It is an exemplary record. The Minister will not be surprised to hear that I am quite happy with the status quo with the national lottery. There is no compelling argument for a change or for moving it to a for-profit model.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy has been entirely consistent. She wants the existing scheme to continue. As I have explained previously, there must be a new licence in any event and that company might or might not win the licence. The new law will apply in the new regime, and section 30 is required.

Question, "That the words proposed to be deleted stand", put and declared carried.

Amendment declared lost.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I move amendment No. 31:

In page 19, line 11, to delete “Minister for Finance” and substitute “Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform”.
The amendment substitutes the term "Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform" for the "Minister for Finance", which is the correct title after the division of the Department.

Amendment agreed to.

Photo of Seán KennySeán Kenny (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Amendment No. 32 is out of order as it involves a potential charge on the Exchequer.

Amendment No. 32 not moved.

3:35 pm

Photo of Seán KennySeán Kenny (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Amendments Nos 33 and 34 are related and may be discussed together by agreement.

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I move amendment No. 33:

In page 23, between lines 2 and 3, to insert the following:"(f) natural environment;".
The categories mentioned for the disbursement of funds are sport and recreation, national culture and heritage, including the Irish language, the arts, health of the community, youth welfare and amenities and "such other objectives as the Government may determine from time to time". That is a little vague. Both Deputy McDonald and I propose the inclusion of the natural environment given its importance. The Irish Environmental Network and the Irish Wildlife Trust do important work and they have a wide range of programmes and activities. The thrust of what they do relates to the maintenance of healthy water and soils and clear air. If we cannot do that, the current economic recession will be nothing compared to what we will face in a recession affecting the natural environment unless we look after it. I am conscious of this because I have spent most of the past two days at a conference in Dublin Castle on hunger, nutrition and climate change where I listened to the voices of communities all over the world and the challenges facing the environment and the way of life of fishermen, farmers, pastoralists and so on. I acknowledge we are not quite in that position but we must be proactive and take our responsibility seriously. There could be an opportunity in this section to include the natural environment. I do not understand how that would open a floodgate to anything else.

The organisations to which I refer do a great deal of work and a significant element of the work is voluntary. If they were to pay for the more than 6 million hours in voluntary work at the national minimum wage, it would amount to €55 million. I am passionate about our natural environment and we should protect it as best we can and give as much support and resources to these organisations as possible. They are precluded the way the section is worded. If the words "natural environment" were inserted, these organisations would have an opportunity to access funding. This is the least resourced sector and I hope the Minister can consider this. The environment is good for our physical, mental and emotional health and that is why I tabled the amendment.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I support and endorse Deputy O'Sullivan's comments in respect of the activism and productivity of community-based organisations that care for the environment. One can see from the plethora of local initiatives, including tidy towns committees, how passionate citizens are about this. There is also an economic element to this. Bord Fáilte says that 80% of visitors to Ireland rank the environment as a key pull factor. It would be positive if the words "natural environment" were included along with the other categories. The Minister will still have the flexibility in the more generalised clause to capture other good causes but if we are serious about preserving the environment and all that entails, for the good of our own health and well-being and for the betterment of the economy, we should include this category. There is no good reason the Minister should not accept the amendments. It would give a status to the groups across the country that work hard on these issues.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to strongly support the amendments. I join in the commendation and the affirmation of the voluntary environment groups. The tidy towns initiative was alluded to by Deputy McDonald. I applaud the voluntary work of the people involved in the Irish Environmental Network, Irish Wildlife Trust, golden miles organisations and other groups, including even community councils which undertake environmental projects in their area. They are proud of their homes, families, communities and their natural environment. That is commendable and should be supported. On that basis alone, I appeal to the Minister to consider these amendments. We are thinking of the voluntary groups that do this work to enhance their natural environment.

The issue raised by Deputy McDonald regarding the tourism industry is valid. There is no doubt the condition of our lakes, rivers, forests, walkways and so on and the diversity of our birds and animals contribute to the tourism product and make Ireland an attractive place to visit. While 80% of visitors have indicated to Bord Fáilte that this is a consideration, if they were questioned further, they would highlight that our green, natural environment with all its biodiversity is attractive to them. I commend that and I appeal to the Minister to bear that mind.

Our farm produce is marketed abroad on the basis of our greenness and this is also a consideration. Organic food is marketed at home and abroad on the basis of our green healthy natural environment while job creation is contingent on good environment conditions. It assists job creation efforts.

I read over parliamentary questions on this issue to which the Minister has replied previously. He is concerned to preserve the voluntary nature of activities at community level and not to finance major infrastructural projects, which are the remit of various Departments, through the national lottery. However, these amendments concern environmental activities in forests, parks and the maintenance of walkways, lakes, rivers and streams and the golden miles on roads preserved by communities. By giving these groups the opportunity to apply for lottery funding, given they would still be subject to the selection criteria and rigorous testing, we would endorse what they do and, in some instances, we could fund fine activity and enhance our environment. I appeal to the Minister to accept the validity of this argument. I congratulate the Members who tabled these worthy amendments.

I acknowledge that national lottery money is not intended to fund infrastructural projects but surely it could be used to fund the activities we have cited with the appropriate qualifying criteria in place. I look forward to the Minister's response.

Photo of Michael McNamaraMichael McNamara (Clare, Labour)
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I support the amendments. Previous speakers have referred to groups that perform an important function locally. I would like to cite an example, which is both national and local. The Irish Seed Savers Association is based in my home town, Scarriff, County Clare. The organisation is well known throughout the country and, in the past, it has received funding occasionally from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Its members collect increasingly rare seed varieties, which are very much part of our national and our natural heritage, particularly in an age of increasing commercialisation in the agriculture sector.

Intensification is also increasing and proposals have been made to use genetically modified products and seeds in Ireland. The varieties of apple and grain grown here have also narrowed. In that context, Irish Seed Savers performs an important function. For example, it has planted 140 native varieties of apples to date. While this may not be important to the Minister, it is of note to apple lovers.

3:45 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I love apples.

Photo of Michael McNamaraMichael McNamara (Clare, Labour)
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Prior to Independence, the authorities introduced a programme under which they sponsored orchard plantations. However, one of the conditions of the programme was that growers plant a certain type of apple tree. As a result, the apple trees that had been grown since time immemorial were replaced by new strains of apples in the early years of the 20th century. This is only one example as similar developments occurred in area of grains.

While the efforts of Irish Seed Savers could be funded under the existing heading of "national culture and heritage", the amendment would avoid any doubt that groups which perform such an important function in maintaining our natural heritage and genetic diversity would be able to apply for funding. As Deputy O'Reilly stated, they would then have to jump through hoops as they completed the same application process that all applicants must complete. The contribution of groups involved in this area should be acknowledged.

For the avoidance of doubt, while I appreciate that the intentions of the Deputies who moved amendments Nos. 33 and 34 are exactly the same, if I were to choose which of the amendments should be accepted, it would be amendment No. 33 as it would be preferable to insert the words "natural environment" before the catch-all clause in paragraph (f).

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The large number of existing categories of good causes provided for in section 41 include "national culture and heritage" and "youth, welfare and amenities". The advice I have received indicates that these categories cover many of the issues Deputies have raised. It is clear from the significant direct contact I have had with Deputies on this matter that the natural environment lobby is healthy. I also received a submission on the issue from my colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government.

On reflection and notwithstanding my replies to parliamentary questions, I am concerned to ensure the categories of good causes are not broadened to such an extent as to dilute their impact. Moreover, I do not want to dislodge proper funding from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government or other sources through moneys disbursed by the national lottery. Notwithstanding these concerns, Deputies on all sides have made a compelling case for broadening the scope of the definition. For this reason, I am willing to accept amendment No. 33. I am agreeing to accept Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan's amendment rather than Deputy McDonald's amendment for the reason articulated by Deputy McNamara. The revised section 31 provided for by acceptance of the amendment would create a more natural sequence of categories as it would not slot in the new category after the catch-all provision provided for currently. The new wording provides for an important addition to the text, one which could usefully address many of the environmental projects people undertake. Natural walkways, including Slí Charman in my constituency, come to mind but there are a great number of good environmental projects which could be usefully funded from the national lottery. I hope the lottery will be expanded and have a larger purse to distribute to good causes.

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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Having spent approximately five hours getting nowhere with amendments to the Animal Health and Welfare Bill, the Minister's decision to accept the amendment is welcome. I thank him and the Deputies who spoke in favour of the amendment, from which only good can come.

Photo of Joe O'ReillyJoe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I, too, am grateful the amendment has been accepted.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendments Nos. 34 and 35 not moved.

Photo of Seán KennySeán Kenny (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Amendments Nos. 36 to 38, inclusive, are related and may be discussed together.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I move amendment No. 36:

In page 23, line 32, to delete "operator" and substitute "operator,".
Amendments Nos. 36 to 38, inclusive, are technical in nature. Amendment No. 36 proposes to insert a comma, amendment No. 37 proposes to delete a comma and amendment No. 38 proposes to replace the plural form of a word with its singular form.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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These are controversial amendments. Perhaps we will need more time to discuss them.

Amendment agreed to.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I move amendment No. 37:

In page 23, line 33, to delete "not," and substitute "not".

Amendment agreed to.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I move amendment No. 38:

In page 25, line 21, to delete "games" and substitute "game".

Amendment agreed to.

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I move amendment No. 39:

In page 25, to delete lines 36 and 37.
I may have been a little premature in moving this amendment given that legislation on mental capacity is due before the House. However, the amendment provides the Minister with an opportunity to clarify the reason a paragraph referring to mental incapacity has been included in the section. What do the terms "legal disability" and "mental incapacity" mean in this context? Is this provision singling out particular groups of people?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I welcome the opportunity to clarify this matter. The paragraph in question is taken from the 1986 Act. Its purpose is simply to allow the national lottery to have rules on the payment of prizes to people with an intellectual disability. It does not in any way disbar or prevent people with an intellectual disability from participating in the lotto. I am a great supporter of such participation. There is also no bar or impediment to such individuals winning a prize. The provision allows the national lottery to have specific rules to ensure persons with an intellectual disability receive any prizes they may win and others cannot engage in subterfuge in this respect. The provision is to ensure that people who win get that to which they are entitled.

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I accept the Minister's clarification.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Bill reported with amendments.

Question, "That the Bill, as amended, be received for final consideration", put and declared carried.

Question put: "That the Bill do now pass."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 90; Níl, 42.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg; Níl, Deputies Michael Moynihan and Aengus Ó Snodaigh.

Níl

Question declared carried.