Dáil debates

Wednesday, 23 January 2013

Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions

Sale of State Assets

1:50 pm

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he will ensure that the proceeds from the sale of the National Lottery licence are ringfenced for key infrastructure investment; if he remains committed to using the maximum amount of the proceeds from the sale of State assets for job creating initiatives; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3186/13]

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On 17 July 2012, the Government announced its plans for an additional €2.25 billion investment in public infrastructure projects in Ireland. The stimulus package included €850 million in Exchequer investment to be funded from the proceeds of the sale of State assets and from the new licensing arrangements for the national lottery. This investment will be used as a project preparation facility for the new public-private partnership, PPP, programme and to fund additional Exchequer capital projects and other commercial and publicly needed projects.

With regard to the national lottery licence, we have already committed to using some of the proceeds from the licence to part fund the new national children's hospital. In addition to this, officials from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform are examining other potential Exchequer projects which can be funded as part of the stimulus plan. They are also considering the selection criteria to be applied and how best to channel funds to commercial projects.

With regard to the use of proceeds generated from the sale of State assets, it has been the Government’s consistent position that funds released from the disposals should be used to support job creating initiatives in the economy. As the Deputy will be aware, the agreement with the troika is that all of the Government’s proceeds from the State asset disposal programme will be available, in one shape or another, to support job-creating initiatives in the economy. Half of the proceeds will be available to fund employment enhancing projects of a commercial nature. The other half, while destined eventually to pay down debt, will in the first instance be constituted as a fund to underpin additional lending into Ireland in support of further investment in job-creating initiatives.

Due to the commercial sensitivities surrounding both the sale of State assets and the licensing arrangement for the national lottery, it is not possible to comment at present on the expected quantum of funding or on specific projects to be funded. As the Deputy is aware, the enabling legislation on the new arrangements for the national lottery licence was published by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform in December. The asset disposal programme will start later in 2013. Details of these aspects will become clearer as asset sales progress and the new licensing arrangement are put in place.

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I know the Minister of State has read from a prepared script. I am beginning to realise that the people felt there was a genuine and very strong commitment that part of the proceeds from the sale of the national lottery licence would be ring-fenced for the new national children's hospital. There is absolutely no sense of that in the Minister of State's reply today. As a result of a new location being selected, this building will not be completed until 2017 or 2018 but the proceeds from the lottery licence will come through in a couple of months in 2013. The question was ignored by the answer but I had asked if proceeds from the sale of the lottery licence - or a substantial portion of them - will be ring-fenced in a special account for the children's hospital. The Minister of State did not answer it.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I apologise. I can do so now.

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What will happen this funding or will it be used for another purpose? When the time comes, will the Government be trying to find money for the national children's hospital? The Minister of State mentioned new legislation regarding the national lottery licensing, particularly the process of licensing. I have gone through every line of it but there is nothing in the legislation that would ring-fence any of the proceeds for any good cause like the new children's hospital.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is correct in that there is no such reference in the Bill, but that is not the intention of the legislation. The Minister published the Bill last December and the House will have the opportunity to discuss it in further detail shortly. We never said that all the proceeds-----

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Some.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----from the national lottery licensing process would go to the new national paediatric tertiary hospital. That was never the intention, which is that a contribution will be made from the sale for the purpose of making a contribution to the new hospital. That is still the proposition of the Government. I do not wish to cut across the terrain of the Minister for Health but I suspect the great majority of the funding for the new hospital will come from the national capital programme, a €17 billion plan that has already been announced. We are also hoping to get some philanthropic proposals. To cut to the chase, it was never the intention that all the proceeds would be handed over to construct the new national children's hospital. A contribution will be made from the licensing process and that is still the Government's intention.

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State knows that I never suggested that all the proceeds would be used from the sale of the national lottery licence, but it has always been stated that a significant portion would be used. Is the funding from the national lottery licence - whatever portion that is - to be ring-fenced for the national children's hospital, as everybody understood was the case? Will it be used in the normal course of events, meaning it will not be there for its stated purpose?

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I suppose we are playing with words. The Minister, Deputy Howlin, has stated that a contribution will be made, whether it is termed ring-fencing or a policy. It depends on whether one man has a dinner and another does not. The bottom line is that this important national facility will be built in the lifetime of this Government. This shows that even in really difficult times, we can get major national infrastructural projects like this over the line. One of the best people to show how this could be done was a former Taoiseach, Mr. Charles Haughey, who even in difficult times was able to build important projects for this country.

We are in the most difficult and challenging economic environment since independence and this project probably should have been built ten years ago if the question of the site had not been so controversial. The decision on the site is over and the Government now has a clear plan for bringing forward the development. We do not even know the cost at this stage because we must return to the planning round. We are not talking about the sale of an asset, rather a licence, but it is proper that a portion of the proceeds will contribute to building a new national children's hospital. That demonstrates the commitment of the Government in very difficult times to get significant public projects like this over the line.