Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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To ask the Minister for Social Protection if the Programme for Government's commitment to maintain social welfare rates remains in place; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [44637/12]

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I welcome Deputy O'Dea to his first questions session in his new role as the Fianna Fáil Party's spokesperson on social protection.

The Revised Estimates for the Department of Social Protection provide for expenditure of just over €20.5 billion in 2012 on the wide range of schemes and services the Department provides. This expenditure represents 39% of gross current Government expenditure and impacts in some way on almost every single person and business in the State, either directly or indirectly. The comprehensive expenditure report published by Government last December provides for additional new expenditure reduction measures of €1,033 million over the next two years in the Department of Social Protection budget. This includes €540 million of new savings to be achieved in budget 2013.

Reducing overall expenditure in 2013 and beyond in line with these targets will be challenging. As part of my preparations for dealing with these matters, last Friday I held a pre-budget forum in St. Andrew's Resource Centre on Pearse Street in Dublin. I invited 35 community and voluntary groups to the forum and listened carefully to their views and proposals in relation to the forthcoming budget. These organisations play a key advocacy role in our society and the payments made by my Department play a vital role in providing income support to the individuals they represent. No decisions have been made at this stage as to how these budget targets will be met. As I indicated on Friday last, the Government is committed, in the programme for Government, to maintain social welfare rates. The Government will finalise its consideration of the budget over the coming weeks having regard to all of its commitments. The outcome of this process will be announced on budget day. The House can be assured that my colleagues and I will do our best to ensure the burden of resolving the crisis does not fall disproportionately on those who depend on income supports from my Department.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for her good wishes. As I listened to the reply, and as I read the statement on Friday, I was reminded of a literary analogy. The Minister is familiar with George Orwell's Animal Farm and remembers the scene where the basic precepts by which the farm was to be ruled were written on a wall. Whenever it suited the ruling clique to breach one of the precepts, the animals noted that one or two words had been added or removed. The Taoiseach and the Tánaiste stated unequivocally that social welfare rates would be maintained. The programme for Government states: "We will maintain social welfare rates." The Minister referred to attending a meeting on Friday, in the presence of the media, at which she committed herself to maintaining core rates of social welfare. The word "core" had been added. Can the Minister enlighten us on what she means by core social welfare rates? The commitment gave a great number of people a great deal of comfort. I assume core social welfare rates includes jobseeker's allowance, jobseeker's benefit and old age pensions. Does it include carer's allowance, disability allowance, family income supplement and child benefit? Can the Minister give an assurance about the household benefits package? I am trying to ascertain precisely what the Minister meant by core and what it covers.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Department of Social Protection is the country's largest spending Department and many people look to the Department for income support. It is important to ensure the maximum protection for those people in the forthcoming budget while reforming social welfare to help people get back to work and become active and engaged. For that reason, I launched the first of the new, integrated social welfare offices yesterday in Sligo. When I spoke on Friday, I referred to core social welfare rates, which are weekly social welfare rates families and individuals receive, as outlined by Deputy O'Dea. They depend on them for their income or for the bulk of their income. In the case of many of our pensioners, weekly pension income may be the only income they receive. Last year, although it was extremely challenging, the Department was able to protect the core weekly social welfare rates of social welfare recipients. We have made no decisions yet on budget 2013, a fact emphasised at the meeting on Friday.

Many kites have been flown by various people about what might or might not happen in the budget.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Most of them by the Minister's Department.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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They have not come from my Department and they have not come from me. Deputy O'Dea referred to Animal Farm. He knows, because he quotes so liberally from it, that in Animal Farm some creatures consider themselves more important than others. I consider the people who are most important are people like our pensioners who require and, I hope, will receive protection in the forthcoming budget. We were able to do that last year and I hope we will be able to do it this year.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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I am glad the Minister has confirmed that she regards pensioners are more important than others. That is some progress. Do I take the Minister's reply to mean that jobseeker's allowance, jobseeker's benefit, carer's allowance, family income supplement and disability allowance come within the ambit of core rates? The Minister was widely quoted in the media at the weekend as giving an unequivocal commitment that core rates would be maintained. I did not see a denial of that from the Minister. That is the story that was published. The Minister gave a commitment to a group, in the presence of the media, that core social welfare rates would be maintained. Why does the Minister say no decisions have been taken? Last Friday, she gave the people the impression that decisions had been taken.

Derek Keating (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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We cannot have the budget debate today.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Minister to clarify what she means by core rates.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Deputy has long experience of Government and he knows that no decision is finalised until it is finalised at the Cabinet table just before the Minister for Finance comes into the Chamber and announces the budget.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister announced a decision last Friday.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am happy to reassure Deputy O'Dea that this long-standing practice has not changed simply because Fianna Fáil left Government at the request of the people. What I said last Friday is that the programme for Government sets out the protection of core social welfare rates.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Which are?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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That commitment is important, but no decision is made until the budget is finalised. I told the Deputy's predecessor, Deputy Barry Cowen, this last year and I am happy to say that when the budget emerged from the Ministers for Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform, we were, in the very difficult circumstances bequeathed to us by the Deputy and his colleagues, in a position to protect those rates. I hope we will be in a position to do so this year also. No decisions are made until they are all finalised.