Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I am pleased to bring the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill 2012 before the House and will inform Members of the background to the Bill and the reason for this short item of legislation. As I informed the Seanad, where I introduced this Bill, the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2010 includes provisions that deem all holders of valid firearm certificates issued for shotguns between 1 August 2009 and 31 July 31 2012 to be the holders of a hunting licence under the Wildlife Acts for the purposes of hunting game bird and hare species. This provision was introduced at the time to address an issue which arose following the introduction of a new computerised firearm licensing system by An Garda Síochána.

It was the case, prior to the enactment of the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2010, that the Wildlife Acts required a hunter to have a licence to hunt certain game birds, such as pheasant and partridge, as well as hares. The Wildlife Acts provide that this would be obtained as an endorsement on the hunter's firearm certificate. Both the hunting licence and the firearm certificate were issued by An Garda Síochána in the form of a shotgun licence with the appropriate endorsement for hunting. However, new Garda Síochána computerised procedures introduced in 2009 for issuing three-year firearm certificates omitted the facility for issuing the endorsement as a wildlife hunting licence. At that time, it was not practicable to recall the new firearm certificates issued or to change the licensing process that was in train. Accordingly, provisions were included in the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2010 to allow a hunter in possession of a firearm certificate to shoot game birds and hare species during the open seasons. These provisions will lapse on 31 July 2012.

Discussions have taken place between my Department, the Department of Justice and Equality and An Garda Síochána since the enactment of these provisions. These discussions considered the question of amending the firearm certificate application form and the certificate itself to accommodate the hunting endorsement. The outcome of these discussions, however, is that a suitable technical solution is not possible at reasonable cost in the short term. Therefore, I consider that the most viable option is to extend the existing arrangements, pending a more thorough review of the Wildlife Acts. I should point out to Members there is a commitment in the National Biodiversity Plan 2011-2016 to publish new consolidated wildlife legislation in 2014. I believe such consolidated legislation to be necessary, given the primary wildlife legislation is now almost 40 years old. The most appropriate context for the consideration of all issues surrounding wildlife, including hunting and hunting licences, is as part of this overall review. Accordingly, I consider that in the interim, the current arrangements should be continued and persons with a valid firearm certificate should be deemed to have a hunting licence under the Wildlife Acts beyond 31 July 2012.

This requires a short technical amendment to the Wildlife Acts, which is set out in section 1 of the Bill. Otherwise, if this is not done, hunters would be hunting unlawfully after 31 July 2012. I should point out this Bill does not give hunters any new privileges or unrestricted permission to hunt protected birds and hares on a year-round basis. The hunting season for game birds under the open season is restricted for most wildfowl to a period from 1 September to the end of January. In the case of popular game birds such as pheasant and partridge, the open season is shorter and extends from 1 November to the end of January. The open season for hares is from the end of September to the end of February. I acknowledge there are gun clubs in nearly every rural parish around the country. Many Members of this House are aware of the popularity of game shooting during the winter months and of the importance of this activity to the local economy. This Bill will allow hunters to continue their sporting activity in a legal manner without interruption during the open seasons. I commend the Bill to the House.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to share time with Deputy Browne. I welcome this legislation before the House, which as the Minister noted, is both short and technical in nature. Moreover, just as Fianna Fáil did not oppose the Bill in the Seanad, we will not oppose it in this House. The Minister has outlined the rationale and reasoning behind the need for this Bill, which go back to the time when the system for issuing three-year firearm certificates was computerised. At the time, the stipulation for a facility to endorse the firearm certificate to permit wildlife hunting was omitted. Three years later, this issue has not been rectified and this Bill is only a temporary measure which merely kicks the problem down the road and delays it for a further three years. Has the Minister considered implementing a more comprehensive solution to the issue? As matters stand, not everyone who has a firearm is engaged in game shooting but on foot of this legislation, anyone with a firearm, be it a handgun or whatever, is permitted to use it for game shooting. The Minister has now been in office for more than 16 months and this is only the second legislative item he has brought before the House. I would have thought there might have been an opportunity during that time to bring forward more comprehensive legislation to solve this issue indefinitely in the future, rather than simply kicking the can and putting in place a temporary measure for a three-year period. He might outline if he has any plans to rectify the situation on a more permanent basis.

There was a high level of publicity surrounding the ban on stag hunting a few years ago. The parties now in Government were very cynical in opposition at the time in their approach to the issue. Deputies who were very much against blood sports came out against the ban and some Deputies made a promise to the people in the affected area that this ban would be rescinded once they come to power. I know that part of the country well as it where my partner is from, and it was one of the main issues in the area during the last general election. As it was a commitment made during the last general election campaign, I thought the Government parties might have used the opportunity arising from this Bill to rescind the ban on stag hunting, as previously promised. We are now getting conflicting reports on that. The Minister of State, Deputy McEntee - a man I greatly admire - has said that it is only a matter of time until it is rescinded, and then the Taoiseach said that was his own personal opinion. As the person with ultimate responsibility in this area, perhaps the Minister might indicate his own position and the Government's position on this issue. The people of Meath East have a great interest in it. The Government is in power for 16 months and it would be nice to see a more concrete decision on endorsing the firearms licences, rather than just kicking the can three years down the road.

John Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Troy for sharing time. I welcome the Bill, even though it has taken some time to get here. The purpose of the Bill is to make provision for an extension of the current hunting licence provisions for the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2010. It removes the end date for certain provisions in that Act. All shotgun licences issued after 1 August 2009 will be valid for use by hunters to hunt lawfully wild birds and hares within the appropriate open seasons.

We have a gun club in every parish and half parish across the country. The sport is very popular and there was a very emotive debate around the country when the last Bill came before the House. Many halls in rural Ireland were packed to capacity, with people criticising the Bill at the time and the issue of shooting wildlife. I welcome the fact that the Minister is going to publish consolidated wildlife legislation in 2014, under the national biodiversity plan for 2011 to 2016. Perhaps he might explain why it is taking until 2014 to do this. It is a bit like the €2 billion announcement yesterday as everything seems to be built around 2014 and 2015. If I was cynical I would think it had something to do with the local elections in 2014, but perhaps that is not the case. Consolidated legislation is necessary, given that the primary wildlife legislation is there for the last 40 years and it needs to be examined.

There seems to be much disquiet about the issuing of licences and the activities of superintendents in Garda stations. People are not happy about the non-issuing of licences and the holding of guns in that area. In a recent case the judge threw out many of the defences put forward by the State. What road is the Minister going to take? I know this might be more of an issue with the Minister for Justice and Equality, but it seems strange that the State would be spending huge amounts of money on defending certain areas only to find judges throwing out the cases. Perhaps there is a better way of doing things.

It seems that every firearm licence issued will now also be a hunting licence. Before this change, a person had to apply and be assessed for a hunting licence. Can the Minister clarify that? People who are licensed to hold handguns will now also have a hunting licence. If my memory serves me right from the last time this legislation went through the House, it was an offence-----

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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It is only for shotguns.

John Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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-----to hunt with a handgun. Perhaps the Minister can------

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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It does not apply to handguns. I am just applying the exact same provisions as the Deputy's Government did two years ago. There is no change whatsoever.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is copying us.

John Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Some people have contacted me to say there is now a blanket issue of hunting licences, whether or not it is required or whether a person is entitled to it on lawful grounds and so on. Will people who had a conviction and lost their licence under the Wildlife Acts now automatically get back their licence under these new provisions? The Minister needs to clarify these issues, but overall we welcome the fact the Bill is before the House. When our legislation came was brought in, both the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party cynically tried to use it to embarrass the Government of the day. We are not going down that road now, but it is important that the consolidation of the wildlife legislation be brought forward from 2014, which seems to be a long time away.

This has been a very emotive issue in recent years and perhaps that will happen again when we consolidate the legislation. While there is a gun club in every parish and half parish, some of them are involved in different aspects of the sport. I do not know if the Minister has visited the Wexford Slobs since he took office, but I think he should do so.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I certainly have.

John Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I am disappointed he did not invite me. The first geese came to the Wexford Slobs in 1898. They were greylags from Iceland, and were the common winter goose in Ireland at the time. However, white-fronted geese from Greenland first appeared in the Wexford Slobs in 1910 and numbered several thousand in the middle of the 1930s, and they replaced the greylags. Around 10,000 white-fronted geese - one third of the world population - spend the winter on the Wexford Slobs. A great number of people visit the area in the winter months to see these geese for themselves. It is important that this area would be protected.

I welcome the Bill. I hope it will pass all Stages as quickly as possible. We are looking forward to the consolidated legislation to which the Minister refers and I hope he can explain why it is taking until 2014 for this to happen.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy McLellan wishes to share time with Deputy Colreavy. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Sandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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Sinn Féin welcomes the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill 2012. It makes perfect sense to extend the current hunting licence provisions in the Wildlife Act 2010 that allow a hunter in possession of a firearm certificate to shoot wild birds and hares during the open season. The environment is a key asset for Ireland and as such it must be protected and proactively managed to ensure it forms the basis of Ireland's economic well being. Our natural environment, with its rich ecosystems, abundant biodiversity and spectacular landscapes, has also a central and important role to play in creating a healthy society and national well being.

The proposed amendment has the potential to make a positive contribution to wildlife conservation and lead to an increase in the numbers of people holidaying in rural Ireland. The latter point is important, particularly when one considers the depressed state of the economy and the dramatic decline in manufacturing and industrial activity. The loss of jobs in these sectors and the shift in the labour market to more service-oriented employment increase the importance of the tourism sector to the recovery of the economy.

Ireland is exceptionally well positioned to tap into the international tourism market with its rich heritage, environmentally clean ecosystem and rich biodiversity. However, the overall challenge is that as the key sectors of the economy develop and recover, to ensure they do so in a sustainable way, while decoupling economic growth from environmental pressures. This means that our natural resources and environmental conditions that are so important to the economic and social well-being of Ireland's future generations they must be protected from overuse and degradation. For example, a clean environment with high standards of water and air quality is a critical component of good quality of life. Abundant biodiversity and healthy soil are also important aspects of our natural environment that are essential for healthy living. Maintaining biodiversity and the natural environment from further loss and destruction is of vital importance if we are to tap into these crucial resources to transform the economy and create sustainable communities in which people can find permanent and secure employment.

Ireland's marine and terrestrial environment supports a wide variety of species and habitats, many of which are of international importance. While many species are doing well in conservation terms, a significant number of habitats and species are not. It must be acknowledged that significant progress has been made in the designation of EU protected areas in Ireland, but several areas of national importance remain undesignated. Significant aspects of biodiversity are under constant threat from overdevelopment and generally unsustainable activities. In this sense, it is of the utmost importance that we value and conserve the intrinsic worth of our natural resources. They are key assets for the State and it is imperative we protect this wealth for future generations.

Tourism in Ireland should preserve its quality. Its green image should be inspired by principles of minimal environmental impact, respect for and support of local cultures and traditions, enhancing a formative experience for the tourist that strives for quality, not quantity, while guaranteeing its conservation for future generations. The sector of sustainable tourism is long overdue for development. Moreover, the international market for more sustainable options is well advanced outside Ireland, with more tourists each year requesting ecological and sustainable experiences here. Sustainable tourism development has the potential to create thousands of jobs, revitalise rural communities suffering from a wave of mass emigration and conserve our natural habitats. Sinn Féin will, therefore, be supporting the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill 2012.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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For a Bill that almost contains one sentence, a lot of time has been allocated to debate it. This is ironic, given that we might be sitting until midnight and so much legislation is going through the House that needs more debate. The debates on some legislation will be guillotined, while a lot of time is given to discuss other Bills.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Deputy does not need the time allowed, another Deputy can use it up.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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If I do not start, my ten minutes will be up and the Ceann Comhairle will be cutting me short.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Deputy could be caught in a hoop and end up being shot.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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The purpose of the Bill is to amend the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill 2010 in order that holders of shotgun licences can continue to use their firearms during the open season. This is a practical, sensible step that maintains the current process of applying for a licence to hold a firearm and continues it into the future. According to the 2010 Act, the window for applications after 2009 is to be closed at the beginning of August 2012. This legislation removes that window and those in possession of firearms will simply comply with the general obligations on firearm owners in renewing licences, etc. This will allow hunters to continue hunting during the open season without having to renew their licences during that period. Proper controls and legislation for the possession of firearms are necessary as there are 233,120 registered firearms. Gun registration is rightly stringent in the State and we support the idea that this should continue to be the case.

When considering the subject of hunting game, it is important that the right balance is struck between conservation and hunting. It is also important to recognise that local gun clubs are often the greatest promoters of conservation and the successful management of wildlife and birds. This can be said about my local gun club, the Glenfarne Gun Club. In 2007 it developed the Boleybrack red grouse habitat management plan for the purposes of restoring the Irish red grouse population on the beautiful Boleybrack Mountain. I hope it will continue to be beautiful and that we will not allow the frackers in to destroy it. The plan is entering year five of implementation and its success would not have been possible without the support of the commonage owners and the local community of Glenfarne. All work on the project has been carried out on a voluntary basis by members of Glenfarne Gun Club with technical assistance and advice from the Golden Eagle Trust and the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS. This is probably the first instance where a group of local people sought the assistance of the NPWS for a project. The project has been a resounding success and the way local farmers, the gun club and the NPWS work together is a joy to behold. The success of the project has raised awareness of the red grouse nationally and been a spur for the establishment of other similar projects elsewhere. During the summer, if the Minister is in County Leitrim, he should give me a call and I will take him to the beautiful Boleybrack Mountain to see the project. He will be very proud of what the NPWS is doing in co-operation with the local gun club and farmers. There is generally a distrust between the NPWS and farming communities. Most farmers claim that the NPWS is out to restrict their ability to develop their farms through the cutting back of the number of sheep and so forth. Recently, when speaking to a NPWS worker, he informed me the service would like it if there were more sheep on Boleybrack Mountain.

Red grouse are on the red list of birds of concern in terms of their conservation owing to a decline in their breeding range nationally of over 60% in 30 years. Of all the factors that influence their survival, the two most important are predator control and heather management. The legal control of predators such as the fox and grey crow can benefit both bird conservation and sheep farming. I, therefore, welcome the proposal to introduce a new wildlife Bill in 2014. There should be a wide discussion on how we can manage the conservation process and designate areas as special areas of conservation, SACs, and natural heritage areas, NHAs, coursing and wildlife issues. It would be useful to have a broad consultation process in the development of the new wildlife Bill, to which Sinn Féin would contribute positively.

It is often stated people do not trust politicians. Since I became a Member, it has been my experience that in many cases politicians do not trust people. In a democracy we must do so. When we do, they will do the right thing. We must, therefore, make it easy for them to do so. The project at Boleybrack Mountain, Glenfarne, County Leitrim shows that if one talks to local people to get their ideas and if they trust the agencies of the State to assist them in doing the right thing, we will all - the State, its citizens and wildlife - have a better future together. The lesson the project teaches us is that we must deal with matters in a particular way. We would do well if we were to adopt the approach taken there.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan who is sharing time with Deputy Clare Daly. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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It is appropriate that, even though they relate to the remits of two Ministers, we are debating the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill 2012 in advance of dealing with the Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012. The Bill before the House is technical in nature and deals with the current hunting licence provisions relating to the shooting of wild birds and hares during open season. In the hunting of birds there is a need to put in place a protocol on the numbers of certain species hunted in order that we might monitor the impact. We must ensure changes in the level of hunting pressure are monitored and I wonder how it is proposed to do this. There is also a need to review the listed species of birds which are hunted in open season, particularly as some of these are of concern, both nationally and on an EU basis, in terms of their conservation. Wildlife in Ireland is a good indicator of the impact of environmental changes and, therefore, the question of monitoring is significant. We are aware that some species such as the breeding curlew and other breeding wader species are suffering a serious decline in numbers.

I will deal with the poor hare. I do not know what the hare has ever done to Irish society to justify the treatment meted out to it, first, as a result of many years of coursing and now by virtue of the fact that people will be able to shoot it. The Minister referred to open season which, for hares, will be five months long. However, open season for hares lasts all 12 months of the year.

My predecessor, the late Tony Gregory, was associated with a number of causes in combating illegal drugs and crime, promoting the interests of street traders and obtaining housing for people. Animal welfare was another cause central to his philosophy. It was one of his deep regrets that more had not been done to progress the issue of animal welfare before he died. In particular, he was concerned about the treatment of animals such as the hare, the fox, the badger and the stag. I am absolutely appalled to think the ban on stag hunting may be rescinded. That would be a retrograde step.

Tony Gregory was honoured to serve as vice president of the Irish Council Against Bloodsports when the late Hugh Leonard was its president. He used various mechanisms of parliamentary procedure to highlight the cause of animals and issues of cruelty. As the Minister is aware, in 1993 he sponsored a Private Members' Bill on wildlife. When he was introducing the Bill, he paid tribute to the democratic process for allowing an Independent Member to take that course of action. He considered that wildlife was a matter of immense public concern and interest and referred to "the welfare of the vulnerable and defenceless in nature's creation." He hoped his Bill would help to end the "mediaeval barbarity of live hare coursing." He acknowledged the pressure Members representing rural constituencies would be under to oppose the Bill. He also acknowledged that coursing clubs formed a very powerful lobby in some rural areas. Given that he came from Dublin Central, he was not under pressure from any lobby. However, he asked that Members be allowed to decide for themselves whether there was a need to change the cruel practice of coursing. This did not happen and, therefore, coursing was not banned in 1993. Many hares have suffered a cruel end as a result. I take the opportunity to state I object to the term "sport" being applied to coursing. There is no sport involved in either coursing or, as proposed in the Bill, shooting hares.

Tony Gregory was not the first person to try to have hare coursing banned in Ireland. The first attempt was made in November 1975 when the current President, Mr. Michael D. Higgins, then a Senator, tried to have legislation relating to wildlife being dealt with in the Upper House amended in order to have coursing declared illegal. His efforts in this regard were backed by another former President, Mrs. Mary Robinson, then a Senator, and the late Dr. Noel Browne. During the Committee Stage debate on the Wildlife Bill 1975 he stated, "My view is that the barbaric practice of hare coursing should be stopped immediately." One of the Senators of the day who was in favour of coursing made the following comment, "There is scope for escapes. Those hares are properly trained today." I wonder for what they were being trained. Another Member of the Upper House stated, "Coursing is fundamental to our greyhound industry." I do not agree with that assertion. There are only three countries, including Ireland, in which coursing is legal and other countries which have banned it have thriving greyhound industries. One of the Senators to whom I refer and who was in favour of coursing also stated, "The hares are adequately and perfectly cared for, both prior to the coursing meeting concerned and afterwards." I was bemused by the use of the word "afterwards", particularly as the former Senator in question was speaking prior to the introduction of muzzling. In such circumstances, I am not too sure how many hares would have survived coursing meetings and required care afterwards.

Mrs. Mary Robinson said, "Coursing is a very cruel sport" and referred to "the principle of trying to prevent unnecessary and deliberate cruelty to animals." The late Dr. Noel Browne referred to the hare as "one of the gentlest of God's created animals" and the fact that very fast greyhounds were used to inflict "inevitably and invariably, unnecessary pain on this tiny animal." He also described coursing as a barbaric practice. It is interesting that at the time in question the British House of Commons had just passed legislation to abolish hare coursing. As Deputies are aware, a high percentage of MPs in the House of Commons would have believed in blood sports. However, they passed an Act to ban the practice of coursing.

During the debate to which I refer the late Dr. Noel Browne commented, "Speaking as a psychiatrist, it is worth examining the kind of people who indulge in this masochistic practice." He also wondered about the emotional make-up of those to whom he referred in the context of their enjoying "the sound of an animal screaming to death, being torn to pieces." He associated that kind of enjoyment which what would have then been obtained in "the more disreputable night spots in Soho." I do not think one would have to go to Soho to obtain such enjoyment nowadays because I am sure it is available much closer to home. I should note that all of the points made in the 1975 debate came prior to the Irish Coursing Club being forced to muzzle dogs at enclosed coursing meetings. The next political push to have hare coursing banned was initiated by the current Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter.

Let us consider what the supposedly humane practice of muzzling has done for the hare. About one month before each meeting club members go out into the countryside to collect hares in a process known as "netting". This involves a gang of supporters shouting and yelling to herd hares into nets which have been strategically placed. The hares are then put into boxes for transport to the coursing venue. These are another two instances of cruelty, but the Bill does not go into much detail on this aspect. The next stage of the process involves training hares. Perhaps the animals have a better chance of survival if they are the subject of coursing rather than being pursued by hunters with guns. However, that is debatable. Releasing a wild hare into a coursing field produces what coursing supporters see as very poor sport because it would not know where to run. During the training weeks hares are kept herded together in a enclosure. This adds considerably to the stress suffered by the hares which are solitary creatures and keep to themselves in the wild. They do not live together in groups. In captivity, therefore, they are very prone to disease which can spread more easily when they are kept together in an enclosure.

As a result of the level of secrecy relating to coursing and other blood sports, it is difficult to obtain accurate statistics for them. It is also difficult to know who to believe. We are informed that on coursing days each hare should only be coursed once. However, it is important to note in this regard that coursing clubs are monitored by coursing officials, not by an independent body.

It is clear that the practice known as "blooding" is widespread. I know this for a fact because many greyhound owners state their animals must be blooded before they can take part in coursing. They use rabbits and kittens for this practice to enhance the performance of the greyhound. The owners of greyhounds who want to race their dogs on tracks must first register them with the Irish Coursing Club. This represents an enforced subsidy in respect of coursing.

The majority are opposed to hare coursing. I am sure they would also be opposed to the hunting and shooting of hares. Many independent surveys have been carried out of this matter during the years. TheJournal.ie recently carried out a poll which showed that a considerable majority were in favour of banning hare coursing until, very suddenly, the numbers of those in favour of it not being banned rose. It was at that point that the staff of TheJournal.ie discovered an attempt to rig the poll - they have proof of this - by people who were pro-coursing.

All animal welfare organisations are opposed to coursing. What, therefore, is the justification for trapping hares or any other animals and using them and their pain as a form of entertainment? There is only a small minority who get pleasure from and bet on hares fighting for their lives as they are chased and terrorised by greyhounds. The activity of coursing is one-sided and the same side always wins. Greyhounds might be muzzled, but the hares are terrorised, injured and some have died. The hare is fighting for its life and is not aware that the greyhound is muzzled. Muzzling does not prevent hares from being tossed up in the air and injured. The lucky hare that reaches the escape area without being caught by the dogs is caught in an enclosure. We do not know what happens to those hares because we do not have the figures. They probably live to fight another day. Perhaps they are released to be shot under the terms of the Bill before the House. The animal we are talking about is chased by the greyhound, which is a much bigger animal.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I apologise for interrupting the Deputy, but I am obliged to inform her that she must stick to what is contained in the Bill.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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Yes. I am talking about animals, including the hare.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not talking about coursing. It is not a Bill on coursing.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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Okay. I am using the opportunity-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry. I just had to remind you of that.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I thank the Chair. I would like to make a point about the greyhound before I leave this issue. The greyhound is also a gentle animal. Greyhounds have also suffered particular injuries. I remind the House that a recent doping scandal involved greyhounds. In its definition of "animal welfare", the World Organisation for Animal Health states that "an animal is in a good state of welfare if ... it is healthy, comfortable, well nourished, safe, able to express innate behaviour, and if it is not suffering from unpleasant states such as pain, fear and distress". The Bill represents a declaration of open season for the hunting of hares, which have enough to deal with during the coursing season. I have made my point about the importance of registration in the cases of the bird species that are covered by the Bill. I will leave it at that.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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I am certainly going to pick up from where Deputy O'Sullivan left off. I hope it does not upset the Ceann Comhairle.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not upsetting me. It is a question of what is in the rules. You can only speak to what is contained in the Bill.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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As Deputy O'Sullivan said, the purpose of this Bill is to allow somebody with a hunting licence issued after 1 August 2009 to carry on shooting wild birds and hares in the relevant open season. That is what it is about. It brings the issue of the welfare of hares to the forefront. It invites us to consider whether it is appropriate to treat them in this way. I totally agree with what Deputy O'Sullivan said when she spoke about the shooting of wild birds. The importance of the conservation of certain species of birds must be adhered to. It is appropriate for Deputies to ask what the hare has ever done to the Irish Parliament. The Bill we are discussing, which is being fast-tracked, will allow wild birds and hares to be shot.

This House has not yet been given an opportunity to debate a large and important Bill that has been published. The legislation in question - the Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012 - is being introduced to protect animals from cruelty and unnecessary suffering. That vital Bill is being delayed but the Bill before the House is being fast-tracked. It is appropriate to link the two. The Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012 talks about the prohibition of terrifying or baiting an animal. It goes on to exempt hare coursing. One Bill acknowledges that hare coursing is cruel by putting in an exemption for hares. Hares are exempt from protection in one Bill and are included in this Bill to allow them to be shot, presumably over the course of the next few months, in case some of them got away or something like that. I do not really know what the agenda is.

It is appropriate to say that this barbarity must stop. What did the hare ever do? We are talking about making provision for licences to allow people to shoot this unique animal - an endemic sub-species that is not found anywhere else in the world - in the open season. I am suggesting that other forms of treatment of this species, such as hare coursing activity, are relevant in this context. We have allowed this activity to continue for more than 100 years while other jurisdictions have been criminalising it. Hare coursing was appropriately outlawed in New South Wales in 1953, in New Zealand in 1954, in Victoria in 1964, in South Australia in 1985, in Scotland in 2002, in England and Wales in 2005 and in Northern Ireland in 2010. These jurisdictions have criminalised hare coursing - it is treated as a criminal offence - but this country is carrying on regardless by allowing hares to be treated in a totally inappropriate manner. It is scandalous that this activity continues regularly in ten counties: Clare, Kerry, Cork, Kilkenny, Donegal, Tipperary, Wexford, Limerick, Galway and Dublin. Balbriggan, in my own constituency, is the only place in County Dublin where it is allowed to take place.

It is appropriate to draw attention to this matter. The Irish Coursing Club has said that hares come to no harm in coursing because they are protected by the existing rules governing the sport, as the club calls it. That is completely and utterly false. It does not stand up to any scrutiny of the evidence.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have already ruled that Deputies are only entitled to speak on what is in the Bill. I had to correct Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan. I am only applying the rules of the House. This is not about coursing. It is about extending the period during which the shooting of certain types of animals may take place.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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Yes.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It has nothing to do with coursing. Please stick to what is in the Bill. Thank you.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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It is directly-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is the rule of the House.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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You are talking about the release of an animal-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am talking about the rule of the House.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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You are interpreting it, a Cheann Comhairle.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not interpreting; I am ruling.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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Okay. Fair enough. I imagine we will have an interesting commentary from yourself when we get to the actual coursing Bill.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is fine. I do not have a problem.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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Clearly, you have an opinion on the matter all right.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Excuse me. Withdraw that remark.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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Okay, you do not then. I do not know what your opinion is on the matter.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Exactly.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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Okay. I am saying that in my opinion, the comments I am making are relevant because we are talking about allowing people with hunting licences to go out and shoot hares for five months of the year whereas-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Exactly. That is it.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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-----for 12 months of the year, we are allowing hares to be used in a coursing environment. We have to see it in the context of the protection of this species. I would like to mention some of the commentary that has been made by the Irish Wildlife Trust, which is the foremost authority on this subject. It is a conservation organisation that uses all the relevant scientific data and expertise on the status of the Irish hare population. Some of its members are experts on this species. The Irish Wildlife Trust has said that the hare on this island is an endemic sub-species. In other words, it is not found anywhere else in the world. The National Parks and Wildlife Service has assessed the conservation of the hare, on the basis of recent studies, and expressed some concerns. It has suggested that the population is stable but is subject to important fluxes. A species action plan for the Irish hare, which was published by the same organisation, states that hare populations have undergone a substantial decline in the past 15 to 20 years and are thought to have fallen to a critical level in some areas. There is concern about the conservation of hares.

The Irish Wildlife Trust has suggested in one of its reports that the unsustainable taking of hares for sporting purposes could be one of the reasons the species is threatened and in decline. It is obvious that this extension of hunting licences, to allow some more hares to be shot, will pose a further threat to the species as a whole. The trust believes this important species needs to be protected. It is afforded protection under the Wildlife Act 1976, as amended in 2000, and under the EU habitats directive. Additional measures need to be put in place to protect the hare. It is relevant to examine this issue in its entirety. The Government has been incredibly slow to introduce legislation to protect animals from cruelty. However, it has found time to fast-track this measure, which will result in more hares being shot. It is particularly reprehensible that we are doing this at the moment. Other Deputies have made the point that shooting animals and wildlife, including birds, is good for tourism. I suggest the opposite argument can be made. Bird-watching and similar activities are also very important for local tourism. If we prevent wild birds from being shot, it will be good for the economy. Therefore, it is not appropriate for this Bill to extend current legislative provisions in this way. I do not think we should take part in it. I do not agree with the Bill for those reasons.

Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I propose to share time with Deputy Tom Barry. I welcome the opportunity to discuss this important legislation. The Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2010 includes provisions allowing all holders of valid firearm certificates issued for shotguns between 1 August 2009 and 31 July 2012 to be deemed to be the holders of a hunting licence under the Wildlife Acts for the purposes of hunting game bird and hare species. This provision was introduced to address an issue that arose following the introduction of a new computerised firearm licensing system by An Garda Síochána.

The solution proposed is a commonsense approach and will facilitate legal hunting by citizens of this State. The legislation is necessary to allow people to continue lawful activities. Throughout my constituency of Louth, there are strong and law-abiding gun clubs. Gun clubs in rural areas like Stabannon and Tallanstown have a strong bond with and are respectful of nature. I welcome anyone to accompany me through these beautiful areas of mid-Louth to sample the depth of tradition that permeates them. It is a traditional skilled activity that has been handed down for generations. It is important for my rural constituents to have their traditions respected and honoured.

Prior to the enactment of the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2010, the Wildlife Acts required a hunter to have a licence to hunt certain game birds, such as pheasant and partridge, and hares. The Acts provided that this would be obtained as an endorsement on the hunter's firearm certificate. The hunting licence and firearm certificate were issued by An Garda Síochána in the form of a shotgun licence. The Bill will enable citizens to hunt in a lawful manner, otherwise they would be hunting unlawfully after 31 July. This would not be acceptable, as the good citizens of Ireland who have complied with the law and respected nature cannot be allowed suddenly to become unlawful citizens.

The Bill does not give hunters unrestricted permission to hunt protected birds and hares on a year-round basis. The hunting season for game birds under the open season is restricted for most wildfowl to 1 September to the end of January. In the case of popular game birds, such as pheasant and partridge, the open season is shorter, from 1 November to the end of January. The open season for hares is from the end of September to the end of February. These traditional dates are sacrosanct and will not be modified. The Bill will allow hunters to continue their sporting activity in a legal manner without interruption during the open seasons. As a consequence, I have no hesitation in commending the Bill to this House.

Tom Barry (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I welcome this Bill, which clarifies a situation that needs to be rectified. The introduction of the new gun licence was welcome at the time. Perhaps the licence should include a photograph, a signature and biometric data. I also welcome the security measures and the policing and advice from the Garda Síochána with regard to firearms in houses. Given the level of crime, it is important that measures are taken to ensure legal firearms do not stray into the wrong hands. Gun safes are very welcome.

As a person who shoots game and then uses it, shooting and game are part of the countryside and will remain so. I disagree fundamentally with people who say we should not shoot game. Another issue is the control of crows and pigeons. Certain Deputies may say the shooting of any wild bird is wrong and that birdwatching is important but if they come to my part of the country they can watch thousands of wild birds destroying crops and passing on salmonella. The control of wild birds through seed dressing has been prevented because we cannot use seed dressing on grain. I am not a great lover of poison but in cases where there is a huge number of birds they need to be controlled and alpha-chloralose, the main poison, has a place when used in a regulated and trained fashion. The cost of production to the countryside needs to be recognised. With the bad weather at the moment, the number of pigeons and crows is frightening.

I met a tillage group in my constituency on Monday and its members raised another issue in respect of this Bill. We are having a problem because we cannot cut hedges on the sides of local roads, regional roads and national secondary roads. Birds are nesting there but we must have the safety of users recognised because one cannot get up and down the roads. Farmers are afraid to deal with the problem because, if they do, they are afraid they will be in breach of some law. We must examine this carefully for the safety of people on the roads. Farmers are willing to cut hedges themselves and bear the cost of it, which would help our tourism industry. In discussing wildlife, this issue comes into play.

An earlier speaker asked what the hares ever did to us. They have done a lot of damage when there are excess numbers of them. In my area, the number of hares is not at a critical level. There is an abundance of them and there are two or three in my garden. They are well able to cause damage. I do not want to give the idea that gun clubs are not responsible. They are incredibly responsible. For people who preach from the middle of Dublin city, the reason the countryside is in such fine fettle is because the custodians of the countryside have maintained it like that for many years and continue to do so. Less criticism and more help would be very welcome.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I am delighted to speak on this Bill and I compliment the Government on bringing it forward. When will legislation to reintroduce stag hunting be published? It was promised in the general election. The Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Deenihan, is not responsible for this area but the Minister of State, Deputy McEntee, made many wild promises about it. I hope this point is seriously considered because we must have a reasoned debate on these issues. Many of these practices have been going on since time immemorial and are part and parcel of our life, heritage and culture. Some 100 years ago, many people were sustained by eating these wildlife creatures after they were shot or fished. People had little other food to eat.

Other speakers, who are members of the Technical Group, are put on notice that I am totally supportive of the practice of coursing. We are not talking about coursing, as such, but we are waiting to see when it will be introduced in the next Bill. We are talking about simplifying a situation that became a problem. The purpose of the Bill is to make provision for an extension of the current hunting licence provisions in the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2010, which allows a hunter in possession of a firearm certificate for a shotgun to shoot wild birds and hares in open season. The enactment of the Bill by 31 July 2012 will have no financial implications or cost for the Exchequer. Some of my erstwhile friends in the Technical Group should think about this. On a daily basis, they complain about unemployment, people emigrating and industry closing. The next time there is a meeting of the think tank, it should come to Tipperary to the Golden Vale and I will take them on a tour of the sights. There are some very well developed fishing and gun clubs and we can show them what goes on behind it. None of us has infinite wisdom but I am often criticised for talking about something with which I am not familiar. I would hate to talk about destroying employment on one hand and scream for more jobs on the other hand. Other Members are advocating paying no taxes - whether the household tax or other taxes - and they bring opprobrium on us all regarding the expenses regime when they are advocating it. We need some balance on this matter.

I am all for sustainable rural communities. There is no better way to sustain them than to have good practice in farming. Fortunately, we have very good practice in the main, following the introduction of REPS and many other schemes over the years. Successive Ministers have done good work in this regard. The farming community itself has made great efforts, as can be seen in the engagement by various farming organisations, including the Irish Farmers Association, Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association and the sheep breeders and hill sheep breeders associations. It is vital that these changes are made and I compliment the Minister on doing what had to be done. There were anomalies in the existing legislation which had to be resolved.

It is not possible to obtain a gun licence for shooting game unless one has land or designated access to land as agreed with the farmer or landowner. It is all about protecting farming. This year we have had appalling weather right through the spring and now into mid-summer and harvest time. Leaving Tipperary this morning, I saw that the barley and wheat are beginning to be stretched with the heavy rains. Those crops survived the rain in June because they did not yet have heavy heads, but they are now dropping and are vulnerable to flocks of crows and pigeons. If not for the shotgun and the people willing to take the necessary action, farmers would be cleaned out. It is as simple as that. I do not want to besmirch the name of the late Tony Gregory, a person whose achievements I acknowledge. However, living in a city, the only crow one might see is the one landing in Croke Park when the game is over. This is not aimed at Tony Gregory himself, God rest him, but at his colleagues.

People must try to understand rural life, where the milk comes from and the barley and wheat for our bread. People sometimes do not care to know where the food they eat comes from. We are an agricultural producing country with huge potential. We cannot bring in law after law merely to suit those who live inside the Pale, some of whom are not interested in our nature or heritage. People should go on a heritage and wildlife tour to enjoy the beautiful scenery, environment and landscapes in rural areas, the crops of rapeseed and corn which are now turning in the golden sunshine. One would not see it in any other part of the world. Everybody has an obligation to educate themselves. I acknowledge that I have much to learn about city life, but I am not coming up to this city telling the people who live here that they cannot do this, that and the other. We have enough of that in the countryside.

In regard to hare coursing, Clonmel coursing festival is worth €6 million to the region. It is maintaining jobs in many small industries. People are living in cuckoo land when they ask what hares ever did to anybody to deserve such treatment. Hares are, in the main, nurtured and cared for and the dogs are muzzled. Practices in coursing have, in almost every case, been transformed so that everybody can now enjoy a safe and dignified sporting occasion. The Minister is welcome to come to Clonmel at any time. Beidh fíor fáilte roimh an Aire go dtí Cluain Meala an bhliain seo chugainn. I recall a story I heard about Hugh Leonard - I am not sure whether he is still alive, but I hope he is. There is a story of the treatment he got from a certain publican called Mrs. Keogh when he came to Clonmel one day and wanted dinner. When he said he was anti-coursing, he got a bucket of water on his head and was gone in a flash. Sin scéal eile.

I am sick, sore and tired of receiving abusive e-mails from animal rights organisations, with their talk of cruelties, which clog up the system on a regular basis. These are the same people who came to Clonmel greyhound track on several occasions before a coursing festival and stuck broken bottles and glasses into the ground in order to prevent the event proceeding. There was no consideration for the cruelty this would inflict on the greyhounds and hares if their paws were injured on the glass. These people are sick. I would not like to say they are deranged, but they are definitely very sick. I saw a letter written by some of their number to a former Member of this House - a Deputy from my area - indicating what they would do his children. Let us get our principles half right here. In the debate on stag-hunting two years ago, there was an argument that horse racing should be outlawed because it involves pitting one animal against another. These are the people did not want sheepdogs assisting in the rounding up of sheep and cattle. Are farmers supposed to use a helicopter? They were opposed to live exports of cattle. They want us to forget about the rest of the world and be self-sufficient, yet we cannot eat fish or kill animals. Are we supposed to become cannibals and eat each other? I am not trying to be funny here. These people must get real and understand the realities of rural life and that many aspects of urban life depend on rural activities.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Deputy return to the matter at hand, namely, hunting licences?

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Tá mé ag déanamh mo dhícheall. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle was not here when that discussion took place.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy might get around to it by lunchtime.

Sandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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We might all be turned off our lunch at this rate.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I hope we all have a good lunch. There will be good choice in the restaurant, even for any vegetarians who might be about the place. There is a range of healthy options to look forward to.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Le cúnamh Dé.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Leas-Cheann Comhairle was not here when my erstwhile colleagues were condemning all of this and seeking the banning of all and sundry. Thankfully, we did not, cannot and will not succumb to those demands.

Outstanding work is carried out in rural areas by local gun clubs and fishing clubs, the IFA and other farming organisations, and by farming families themselves. It is a joint effort. Just because one stag appeared in a school one day, which is obviously dangerous, we should not throw out the baby - indeed, the whole family - with the bath water. Instead, we must encourage and support these clubs in the valuable work they are doing. I made the same point to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, in recent debates on another issue. I probably should not mention that Minister's name in this debate. The animals would avoid him in any case, although it would be good to put him in there with them because it would stimulate the growth of bacteria better than any pureflow system or any other system that is being promoted. The people I am talking about work on the mountains with their bare hands, burning off gorse carefully and with the conscientious support of the Irish Wildlife Trust. They do more than anybody else to promote, stimulate, restock and protect their environment. We have seen the figures in regard to the value for tourism of one fish that is caught in Ireland. We are talking about sustainable communities. Farming was doing well this year until the inclement weather was sent by the man above. One would not wonder at the latter being confused by the messages he is getting from people who despite claiming to be hungry and badly off, do not want to allow us to partake in our recreational activities or to eat venison or whatever meat we prefer. It is not surprising that we are all confused.

The Minister, Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, did a walk recently in Tipperary where he enjoyed beautiful sunshine and the views from Aherlow. Perhaps he will consider coming down to visit the ABGN gun club and the other gun clubs in south Tipperary, all of which do outstanding work. They deserve accolades for their efforts in preserving their environment and teaching young people right from wrong when it comes to protecting the landscape and its inhabitants. I have a gun licence to shoot fowl but I never shot a hare in my life. I would not do so. However, crows and pigeons must be shot. Grey crows too will destroy a lamb flock if they get the chance. We must accept the realities and get real. Gun clubs, fishing clubs and angling clubs should be supported in continuing their important work. It is their members who have to deal with the damage done to the environment by municipal plants, some of which continue to malfunction even after millions are spent on their repair. When they emit foul odours and massive leakages into the rivers, it is the people I am talking about who report the matter to the Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA staff member, unfortunately, may well do no more than telephone a contact in the local authority to say that the same fellow is complaining again and ask that the offender be spoken to, yet ordinary people will be hauled before the courts if they cannot afford to upgrade their septic tanks. Fishing clubs and gun clubs are doing a great deal to nurture the environment but they are not getting the support they deserve.

A comprehensive register of greyhound tracks is now in place, managed by the Irish Coursing Club. I am not sure whether it is independently monitored, but I assume it is. I ask my colleagues, Deputies Maureen O'Sullivan and Clare Daly, to come down to Clonmel and see the coursing for themselves. They should educate themselves on what goes on both on and off the track. We will go down to Annie Keogh's for our dinner and have a healthy chat about it. We must support all efforts to keep what we have in rural Ireland because we have so little.

This week, I have been listening to Cian McCormack's tremendous daily reports on "Morning Ireland" where he visits various towns in rural areas. Listeners to the programme hear about the enthusiasm, fight and stamina of business owners and ordinary people as they promote their towns and create new ways of getting people to spend in their communities. What better way to attract people to rural areas than to encourage coursing meetings, horse races and fishing? Unfortunately, in the case of my local angling club in Newcastle, wealthy entrepreneurs have bought up the fishing rights and local people are denied access to the river. While I do not like to describe him as "trigger-happy", our local ranger believes he is Kelly the boy from Killane. If a buachaill óg nó cailín óg fishes from the bridge in the village, which was mined during the troubles, the Garda is called to arrest him or her. I did not know it was illegal to fish from a bridge crossing the River Suir but the local ranger believes he can put anyone off it. What better pastime is available to young people than to learn how to fish? I am a bad hand at fishing, having failed to learn, but my son is learning to fish. In any case, it is almost impossible to fish this year with the floodwaters.

People wish to enjoy themselves within the law, promote our culture and heritage and avail of our natural resources which we have had since time immemorial. Long may we be allowed to engage sensibly in such activities. While some people will always engage in lamping or poaching, which are practices I do not condone, I support right-thinking people who want to promote and stimulate the activities I have described. Is it not better for a young boy or girl to be outside fishing or hunting than sitting at home every day in front of computer on Facebook, Google or whatever else? At least when they return to school after the summer, their teachers can ask them about flora, fauna and mother nature, about which I learned when I went coursing as a buachaill óg with the men of the parish. Coursing was good, healthy exercise and all I had was the butt of a stick to hit a ditch.

A previous speaker referred to the herding of hares. I herd in sheep with a sheepdog at weekends and others herd cattle, goats and even deer. How would we manage livestock if we were not able to herd them with the assistance of a dog? It was suggested we behave like fierce wild beasts as we jump down ditches with electronic weapons hunting unfortunate hares and herding them into corralled areas. Last year, I discussed coursing with an animal rights activist on my local radio station. Animal rights activists had cut nets and allowed hares to escape two nights before the Clonmel coursing event. The hares escaped over a fence and ran onto the M8 motorway where they were slaughtered. It is illogical for an activist to argue that this is more humane, normal and natural than hares being chased by a dog. When the activist in question was asked whether he had ever stepped on a snail or slug when walking on land, he could not answer the question. We must understand there is human and animal life.

Reference was made to a writer who referred to people in Soho. We saw how things can go badly wrong at a recent event in the Phoenix Park when there were few animals around. Those who attended the event would benefit from an understanding of nature, where we came from and how to behave. Farmers and others involved with wildlife treat animals with respect and are very strict in this regard. They give a good education to young people who join various clubs. In south County Tipperary they also promote tourism and business and help maintain a vibrant community. They are involved in many good projects, including some supported by the Tipperary Leader programme. Knockmealdown Active, for example, is a new organisation which does tremendous work to promote and enhance tourism, industry and business.

Money does not come from holes in walls, cheques in the post or social welfare offices but must be generated through farm production and other means. I have had many a good dinner from a rabbit I killed and skinned. I am sure the Leas-Cheann Comhairle hunted rabbits when he was young. This is healthy exercise. Legislation on the minimum working age and other baloney introduced in recent years prevents young people from working. We have changed for the worse in many respects. While many of the measures introduced were well-intentioned, unfortunately we are moving backwards. It is good for townspeople to spend time outdoors, helping farmers and learning about nature and for country people to give a hand in pubs and shops where they can learn to deal with customers and come to understand the value of commerce and trade. We need to be careful not to regulate everything or we may all end up stuck in armchairs in front of the television.

I ask the Minister to ensure the solemn promise to reintroduce stag hunting, which was made by some of his colleagues before the general election, is kept. I do not know anything about stag hunting, having never taken part in the pastime, but it used to be a valuable industry which had a number of spin-off activities. It is not an especially cruel activity and it continues to take place despite the ban.

The promotion of the Irish language was discussed earlier. As I have argued for years, if Irish were banned, everyone would speak it daily. We are banning too many things. It is often said that we are losing our sovereignty. We lost most of our sovereignty a long time ago and the laws being introduced are eroding it further. The Croppies must lie down and we must become beholden again to other people and agents, whether wildlife officials, fisheries officers or others.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North-West Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputies for their contributions, which were varied but constructive overall. To respond to Deputy Troy, only those people with firearms certificates for a shotgun are covered by this Bill and the review of the wildlife Acts will include a review of all aspects of licensing. The Deputy expressed concern at the small number of Bills emanating from my Department and argued that this legislation should have been introduced more speedily. Little has been done in this area since the previous wildlife Act was introduced 40 years ago. I have given a commitment under the national biodiversity plan to review the wildlife Acts. This process will require considerable consultation and I hope a Bill will be introduced by 2014. It would be a good outcome if we could stick to that timeframe.

Two Bills from my Department are before the House today, namely, the Bill before us and the Gaeltacht Bill being taken by the Minister of State, Deputy Dinny McGinley. Next year, I hope to introduce a monuments Bill, which will be wide-ranging and ground-breaking legislation. My Department has been active in the area of legislation.

Deputy John Browne noted that the current legislation was introduced almost 40 years ago. It is important to update the legislation and, in doing so, to consult widely. The consultation process has commenced and I have regular meetings with representatives of the relevant organisations, for example, Des Crofton of the National Association of Regional Game Councils. As I stated, 2014 is not far away.

On the issuing of farm certificates, Deputy Browne may not be aware that this is a matter for the Minister for Justice and Equality. Licences are not required to shoot rabbits or foxes. The Bill refers only to the hunting of wild birds and hares.

I thank Deputies Sandra McLellan and Michael Colreavy for expressing positive support for the Bill. I concur with Deputy McLellan on the importance of preserving rural pastimes which, as well as social benefits, have significant economic benefits. The relationship between the rural population, the National Parks and Wildlife Service and other agencies such as Fáilte Ireland is vital. I have said in meetings with environmentalists that the most important custodians of the environment are those who live in rural areas. Unfortunately in the past, in many cases, urban dwellers dictated to them and while they had the best of intentions, they did not have to live in rural areas and did not understand what it was like to live in such places. I am trying to get people to work together and it is happening to an extent.

As regards the environment, I was in charge of the REPS in the mid-1990s and at the time there was a certain reluctance on the part of the farming organisations to embrace the concept of teh scheme, but their attitude has totally changed since and they have become positively disposed towards ensuring the environment is protected and that nature and biodiversity are safeguarded. There has been a major reduction in the number of bees, which has resulted in their having to be imported to pollinate plants. Farmers and other rural dwellers are aware that they must protect the rural environment. If we can have a better relationship between people in the environmental pillar who are concerned about the environment for good reasons and those who are protecting the environment, farmers and the rural population, we can make progress.

The project under way on Boleybrack Mountain is very interesting because there is concern about the red grouse population. Red grouse have vanished from many parts of the countryside where once they were plentiful. If I get the opportunity, I will be delighted to take Deputy Michael Colreavy up on his offer of a visit to County Leitrim to see the project. I am aware there is another project in County Tipperary and similar projects elsewhere, but there is major concern about the red grouse and I would like to see how the project is being run in County Leitrim. The community on Boleybrack Mountain has organised the project and I am pleased it was undertaken in conjunction with the National Parks and Wildlife Service. Unfortunately for the National Parks and Wildlife Service, it has become associated with telling people what not to do rather than what they can do in co-operation with it. This is a good example of how working with the local community can have good results.

Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan has continued the work undertaken by the late Tony Gregory to whom I spoke many times in this House and beyond about coursing. The motion on coursing that he tabled in 1993 was interesting; it split a number of parties, my own included. I take some credit, however, for the achievement of muzzling. I proposed the measure in a debate during Private Members' business and it was adopted by the Government. I said then that it took the blood out of coursing, although there are still issues to be resolved. Wherever there is coursing, there will be hares. I attend the occasional coursing meeting, although I have not been at one for over a year, and it is very much part of the rural way of life and its culture. Some Deputies might criticise this, but where I come from in north Kerry coursing is as popular as Gaelic football. It commands a huge following and without it people would feel a major emptiness in their lives. One of their pastimes and real interests would be no more and it would have a real effect on them.

As regards monitoring coursing meetings, the National Parks and Wildlife Service reports on coursing meetings and wildlife rangers are present. They report back to me on the issues of hare husbandry and health and how the local coursing clubs look after the hares, both in captivity and the wild. Many hare coursing clubs protect hare habitats and ensure hares are protected.

As very few people shoot hares, these measures will be part of the review of the Bill. I said to the coursing community that I was thinking of removing the reference to hares from the Bill because very few people shot them. The only reason the reference to them was included in the first instance was for control, where there might be a huge hare population in a particular place. That certainly could pose a threat to crops. However, I do not know of anyone who shoots hares, but the provision was included in the legislation; therefore, if it is not needed, I see no reason, when we review the legislation, we should not reconsider its inclusion.

Bag returns were mentioned. Those involved have some arrangement, but it is not obligatory to report bag catches. This is another issue we must examine in the future.

Deputy Clare Daly was exercised about hare coursing also. I understand the Technical Group proposes to introduce a Bill on this issue which would give the Deputy an opportunity to discuss it. It is up to the Technical Group to allow for this when it has time to do so in the future.

Deputy Peter Fitzpatrick highlighted the importance of tourism, while Deputy Tom Barry has some practical knowledge as a man involved in farming and the grain business. He knows about bird control and mentioned crows and pigeons. If there is no control, considerable damage can be done to crops, leading to a major loss of farming income. There is no doubt about that and that is why it is important to have these controls.

Deputy McGrath raised several issues. I agree fully with him that local gun and coursing clubs are important for the preservation of wildlife in the country. It is important that the environmental groups work closely with the gun clubs and coursing clubs because they share a common interest in the preservation of wildlife in the country. If they work together these groups could get better results. Deputy McGrath referred to a specific issue about fishing clubs. I do not have responsibility for that area. The Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy O'Dowd, has responsibility for inland fisheries and Deputy McGrath should raise that issue with him.

I thank the various Deputies for their contributions. There will be further debate on this issue in time to come. I would like to proceed to the next Stage.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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