Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I wish to address what has been a significant burst of incoherence from the Government over the past number of days and weeks. We have been bombarded with different messages from various Ministers on very fundamental issues. The comments of the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, on the need to defer public sector increments and the need for compulsory redundancies in the public sector, contrast very sharply with the comments of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, on how the Croke Park agreement was working and which he articulated clearly.

I refer to yesterday's leak to The Irish Times of correspondence between the Minister, Deputy Howlin and the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, in which the Minister, Deputy Howlin, urged the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, to take immediate action on the €200 million overrun in the health service. He wants the Minister to, "personally engage", in the situation and to endeavour to manage it better. He proclaimed to have serious concerns about activities in the Department of Health.

I refer also to the refusal of other Ministers to rule out income tax hikes or welfare cuts, as in the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte's, no red lines for the budget. There was also today's rushed press conference, which was clearly organised to try to deflect from the incoherence and mixed messages of the Government but, from the early responses to that, it appears to have only added to the mess and the lack of direction and clarity. That was in respect of the personal insolvency Bill.

All of this has caused surprise. Only last May the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, said the economy was doing much better this year than last year, and all the announcements were that revenue was ahead of Exchequer targets and so forth. I have two fundamental questions for the Taoiseach. Will the Croke Park agreement be honoured by the Government, "Yes" or "No"? Does the Taoiseach agree with the Minister for Public Enterprise and Reform that the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, must personally engage and take immediate action on the overspend in the Department of Health? How does the Government plan to protect front line services in the health sector to the end of the year?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I note the Deputy referred to a "burst" of incoherence. That word is very important to the Deputy's party. I recall one of its members saying on television that somebody would burst the party asunder. I am sure that is still stuck in the Deputy's memory.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The word was "bust", not "burst".

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It will be challenging and difficult to draft the budget for 2013. The target is to have the deficit down to 7.5%, which means a reduction of €3.5 billion, with €1 billion coming from tax and €2.5 billion on the other side.

In respect of the Croke Park agreement, the Deputy is aware that the Government has received the independent analysis of that agreement. The Government will meet with the implementation body to discuss the report and its findings. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Minister for Finance will examine the Croke Park agreement and this report as part of their analysis of how we approach the preparation of the budget for 2013. That budget will be presented by the Minister for Finance in December.

In regard to the Deputy's question about Ministers needing to engage, this is a requirement for every Minister. The letters that were published were the result of a freedom of information request. It is a requirement and responsibility for every Minister to engage, in so far as their Department is concerned. Deputy Martin will be aware that the Government has set its target for spending for the next three years, including ceilings, and every Minister is required to live within the agreed ceilings. From that point of view, the Government will start the process in due course of preparing for the budget. As I said this morning, that budget will not be drafted in public. The Cabinet will conduct its deliberations and make its decisions in respect of what will be a very challenging position for 2013.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

There is a serious lack of direction emanating from the Government. There is no clarity on a range of issues. People want direction and need clarity. I asked the Taoiseach a simple question about whether the Government would honour the Croke Park agreement, but he was unable to answer it. He said Ministers would look at the report. The Government is either going to honour it or not. One can argue the merits or demerits but the Taoiseach is failing to provide clarity. As one of the union representatives, Mr. Ronayne, said this morning, there is a great deal of kite flying taking place. A sum of €8 means a great deal for many low paid public servants. Those people would like some clarity, certainty and direction from the Taoiseach-----

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Like we used to get from you.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

------but they have no sense of that at present.

At the press conference today, the Taoiseach was asked if banks would have the capacity to veto any arrangements, but he could not answer the question despite calling a major joint press conference with the Tánaiste. That lack of certainty and direction is undermining confidence. What has been done in the past week or two by Ministers will damage economic recovery and consumer sentiment. It will undermine the capacity of the domestic economy, in particular, to achieve some type of recovery. It is time the Taoiseach asserted his authority in the Government and not have it undermined daily by Ministers who cannot keep their thoughts to themselves. As the Tánaiste so eloquently said this morning, every Monday morning when they wake up they feel disposed to articulate some view or other. It is undermining the Taoiseach's authority and the authority of the Government, as well as its sense of clarity and direction.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am very taken by Deputy Martin's concern for my authority.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

So are a few beside the Taoiseach.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Tánaiste and I gave a press presentation a short time ago. Its purpose was to inform the media and the country that the Government has approved the personal insolvency Bill. This Bill is highly technical and complex. The explanatory memorandum for it is now being prepared by officials and the detail of the Bill will be published in full on Friday, when a full presentation will be given by three Ministers. All the detail will be made available, rather than focusing on one particular element or another. It is not a case of not wishing to respond here but a case of having the publication of the Bill and its presentation being carried out together.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We have been asking about it for a year and a half.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I disagree entirely with the Deputy's comment that there is insufficient direction or clarity in the Government. In the past 12 months this country has moved from being associated with what was known as the PIIGS - Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain - group to a very different position. International commentary from business, politics and economists sees Ireland and its Government, working with the people in difficult and challenging positions, to be moving solidly in the right direction. That is reflected by the continuous and strong investment decisions being made by foreign investors, and is reflected again today in further decisions.

The Government and I will accept our responsibility. The Deputy denied all responsibility when he had a position of authority, and said so when it cost elderly people serious money. In respect of the-----

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

What is the Taoiseach talking about?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It was when the Deputy was Minister for Health and had no responsibility for anything. He produced 130 reports that lay on shelves gathering dust.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Taoiseach should answer the question he was asked.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

As far as the Croke Park agreement is concerned, the agreement runs to the end of 2013. We want it to be implemented in full and as speedily as possible. I have said that on many occasions, as has the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will the Taoiseach honour it?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The report was commented on independently quite recently, which indicated the savings, changes in structure and rosters, redeployment of personnel and movement of public servants out of the public service. We want that report to be implemented in full as speedily as possible-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will the Taoiseach honour it?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

-----because it is referred to by the troika in the memorandum of understanding. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will the Taoiseach honour it?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The agreement is being honoured.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Yes, but will it be fully honoured?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The agreement is part of the process of the preparation for the budget, and responsible Ministers have a duty to reflect on the independent report and on the figures as we move forward in that preparation. Both Ministers will come before the Government in due course and the Government will do its work, as it is required to do under the Constitution and under the mandate it has. The Croke Park agreement is part of that process.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

An Teachta Martin misses the main point. It is not about the incoherence of the Government Ministers. There is much incoherence but that is a given. However, for all the apparent disagreement, the Labour Party and Fine Gael Cabinet is fully in agreement that €500 million should be cut from social welfare payments. At the same time, senior bondholders will be paid. This week another €1.14 billion worth of bonds, formerly held by Irish Nationwide Building Society and Anglo Irish Bank, will be paid. For all the incoherence in the media this morning, the Cabinet will pay over €5.98 billion. That is more than the €500 million it plans to take from citizens who receive social welfare. Tá na ciorcail órga ag obair go han-mhaith agus tá ag éirí níos fearr ag cuid de na daoine, ach is iad na daoine eile atáá iompar. Does the Taoiseach believe it is fair, as the Government plots and conspires among itself, to increase taxes and take money from social welfare recipients while at the same time he is paying over so much money to those golden circles? Will he give a clear commitment now that he will stop doing that because that will sort out all of the problems?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Tá a fhios maith ag an Teachta céard atá déanta ag an Rialtas seo ó thaobh iad siúd atá ag fáil airgid ó thaobh cúrsaí leasa shóisialaigh de. Cuireadh cosaintí i bhfeidhm maidir leis na híocaíochtaí sin anuraidh agus sin a bhí i gceist i bplean an Rialtais. Tá a fhios maith ag an Teachta freisin go dtéann réim agus cuspóir an ECB trasna chuile tír san Eoraip agus sa eurozone. Mar sin, ní bhaineann an méid a bhí le rá ag an Teachta le Éire amháin, ach le chuile tír sa eurozone.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Arís, níor thug an Taoiseach freagra soiléir ar an cheist a chur mé air. It is very simple in whatever language we speak. The Taoiseach is paying out billions of euro to bondholders while planning to take money from those who can least afford it, and to increase taxes. The Taoiseach stated in his programme for Government that he would not cut welfare rates or increase taxes but I see it every day in my constituency of Louth, as, I am sure, does every Teachta Dála. I ask him to give us a clear commitment today that he will stop paying these bondholders, that he will put the money into investment in jobs and essential projects and that he will not make the ordinary working people, and the working poor, pay for the elites. The unfairness of this Government, and the Labour section of this Government, is that he is asking the working poor, people on welfare and a range of other citizens who did not cause the crisis, to pay the burden while the Taoiseach pays out their money to these golden circles. He is doing it today but he should not do it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

What Deputy Adams is asking is that the country should default, which would be a disaster and a catastrophe economically for us and for every person living here.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is a disaster already.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I do not subscribe to that view. This country has always paid its way. The Government has made it perfectly clear that what we want in respect of the bank debt situation is a re-engineering of that to a longer-term lower interest rate, which would be of great benefit to us.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The bondholders will get paid.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Government is planning a real impetus in respect of lessening the burden on work and unemployment, improving the opportunities for people to get jobs and an investment programme which has been renegotiated in part by both Ministers with the troika whereby, when the Government decides to sell elements of State assets at the appropriate time, the proceeds of that can be used in the main for investment in sustainable employment and in job creation for our young people.

Deputy Adams makes the point that the Government is planning to cut social welfare and to increase taxes. I remind the Deputy that the programme for Government is very clear on that matter, and the programme for Government has not changed.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Taoiseach is paying €1.14 billion to bondholders.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Reports that the Taoiseach has told the Cabinet not to speak publicly about sensitive budget issues must be welcomed, although I would have thought they would not know much about it because that budget will be written in Berlin by the Bundestag.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the reports nevertheless. The important matters, which are a matter for the discretion of the Government, have been addressed by Cabinet Ministers in recent days and I particularly want to follow up the question about the Croke Park agreement in a specific way. The issue of increments in the public service-----

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

You have lost Finian already.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

-----which was raised by the Minister for sport and also, in contradiction, by the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign and Trade, is important.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I did not raise it, and I am the Minister for sport.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is important for one reason, although not that increments are necessarily a bad thing.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is a bone for Finian.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will the Taoiseach confirm if it is true that those increments are being paid to people at the very top end of the public service? Are people earning six figure sums of over €100,000 a year being paid that amount? If that is the case, that is an argument in itself for a reopening of the Croke Park agreement because it is unfair. I am sure the Taoiseach will acknowledge that people being paid so much at this time of austerity should not be gaining so much when people at the bottom of the scale are being considered as a target for cuts and public service cuts in the budget.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

You are in the wrong seat today, Finian.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The position in so far as increments are concerned is that 70% of those in the public service who receive increments are in the middle to lower end of the public service. The Deputy did not compliment the Minister of State, Deputy Ring, on ensuring that Westport became the number one-----

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That was Councillor Christy Hyland-----

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

-----town in the country in which to live which he brought about single handedly because of his efforts.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy referred to reports from the Cabinet. I never comment on what happened at Cabinet meetings but there are reports that the Deputy is considering the position in so far as his new constituency is concerned. The Croke Park agreement runs until 2013. Independent analysis of that showed up favourably in respect of it being implemented as far as roster changes, redeployment and movement of personnel out of the public service was concerned. It will form part of the analysis and preparation for the budget for 2013 when both Ministers report to Cabinet. I intend to meet with the public service unions, along with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, in the near future in regard to the Croke Park agreement.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I want to reassure the Taoiseach that I will not be moving constituencies; I will leave that to the Minister, Deputy Shatter, Deputy White and any others who want to take that course of action.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Could the Taoiseach assure the House that those public servants at the top end who are on six figure sums - €2,000 a week or less - should be considered and targeted if they are receiving those sort of increments? He should certainly give consideration to those at the lower end who are getting increments but could he assure the House that those people who are getting so much money at times of austerity will be targeted and will have it removed when the review of the Croke Park agreement comes up?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

With the leaders' allowance.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will bear the Deputy's comments in mind but as I understand this those at the very top do not get increments. There may well be those who are in line for promotion instead of long service increments in some sectors but I will take note of what the Deputy said in respect of the issues we will discuss when we meet with the implementation group.