Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Question 5: To ask the Minister for Social Protection if she will outline the conditions that would constitute enough childcare support and after school care in order that one parent payments would be cut at the age of seven in the future. [20951/12]

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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In the past, income support for people of working age, including lone parents, has been passive in nature with little systematic engagement by the State with the customer. This is now changing. Long-term welfare dependency and passive income support to people of working age are not in the best interests of the recipient, of their children or of society.

The best route out of poverty and social exclusion is through paid employment. Work, and especially full-time work, may not be an option for parents of young children. However, supporting parents to participate in the labour market, once their children have reached an appropriate age, will improve both their own economic situation and the social well-being of themselves and of their families.

The one-parent family payment has played an important role in providing income support to lone parents. Total expenditure this year is estimated at €1.06 billion. Changes have been made to the payment since its introduction in 1991, reflecting the changes taking place in society, the labour market and the expectations and realities of parents' lives, in particular of mothers, in terms of work and care. These reforms continue that change. They recognise parental choice with regard to the care of young children while, at the same time, having an expectation that parents will not remain outside of the workforce indefinitely.

These reforms will require a whole of Government response with regard to the provision of the appropriate education, training, employment and child care supports including the provision of appropriate after school care. The changes introduced in the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012 are being brought in over time. Between now and 2014, the consequences of these changes will be examined on a cross-departmental basis and in consultation with the groups that represent lone parents.

I am happy to tell the Deputy that discussions have already been taking place between the Department and the Department of Children and Youth Affairs and the Department of Education and Skills with regard to thedevelopment of a policy framework around child care, including after school care and, in the short-term, the assessment of the extent of the current provision of such care, the costs of such care to parents and the demand for such services from lone parents.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Anybody sitting in the Visitors Gallery would not know the question I asked was if the Minister for Social Protection would outline the conditions that would constitute enough child care support and after school care so that one parent payments would be cut at the age of seven in the future. This question has also been asked by groups such as Barnardos. Will the Minister provide evidence of any country which has made the kind of transition in child care services about which we are talking in just 18 months and against the backdrop of cutbacks and the need to generate Exchequer savings?

There was a contradiction in what the Minister said. Even in the limited outline she gave me, it was not clear how she would see this situation changing. She made it clear that no extra funding would be made available for investment in restructuring child care services in the short term or medium term. Does the Minister really believe the radical child care services needed will be in place within 18 months?

The Minister alluded to the Scandinavian model of child care. Does she know Scandinavian child care is a very specific child care provision? Preschool is available to children from aged one to the time they begin primary school. Children in Sweden begin preschool at different ages and attend for different amounts of time per week. They are open all year round and on certain holidays and the daily schedule is based on the needs of parents with children. Is that the type of preschool model the Minister wants to bring in which is affordable to people because preschool is not affordable to people in this country ?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Our model has developed over a long period of time. Until recently, lone parent status, specifically in regard to parenting, did not end until children reached the age of 18 or 22. The countries the Deputy referenced have good systems.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Minister referenced them.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Deputy referenced them as well and indicated that she thinks some elements of their systems are progressive. The situation in those countries is that a parent parenting on their own as well as being assisted with income support, as in our case, is also assisted to get back into education and training and, ultimately, into work because all the indications are that the best route to tackling poverty is for a child to be in a household where one or both parents are at work. That is the net point.

As a country, we have been spending more than €1 billion per year on lone parent support, yet the outcomes in terms of poverty for the parent and the child are not the kind of outcomes I would like to see, in particular in the context of the money we are spending. Over the past decade, this country has invested more than €1 billion in developing child care infrastructure under the national child care investment programme and prior to that, the European Union co-funded equal opportunities and child care programmes. We have the early childhood care and education programme, which is open to child between three years and three months. Some 61,000 places are being provided under that programme - 17,000 by community providers and 44,000 by private providers. There is also the community child care subvention, with which I am sure the Deputy is familiar.

Before the changes are brought in in a number of years time, we must work to expand the provision and give lone parents and their children a better outcome and better opportunities so they are not in poverty. The Deputy and others have stated repeatedly that, despite the money we spend, many lone parents and their children are poorer than we would like.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Minister has still not answered the question, which I asked so that we might debate the matter during our discussion on the amendments to the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012. As the Minister knows, there are not enough affordable child care facilities. Lone parents want to work, but seven years of age is too young to keep their children at home and there are not enough child care facilities available to help them return to the workplace. Lone parents comprise a small group and I cannot understand why the Minister would claim that child care provision has not developed in recent years, given the fact that the birth rate has increased in the past two to three years. Surely the Government should be reacting to this increase and providing more affordable facilities. Once again, the Minister has not outlined the situation. People were expecting more from her regarding her views on introducing Scandinavian-type child care to Ireland.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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My Department and the Department of Children and Youth Affairs are examining current levels of provision. For instance, the national child care investment programme, NCIP, supports approximately 15,800 after-school places and there are more than 37,000 childminding places. There is a total of 75,000 places in all, given the variety of ways in which after-school care, for example, can be provided. The Early Start and new preschool programmes have been valuable for parents.

I have listened to debates on child care for at least 20 years. As a country, we must aspire to good models that provide preschool and after-school care in particular. Some models are in place and the Government has created a full Department of children, one responsibility of which is to address this issue, given its importance to parents. Tomorrow morning, I will launch a report on child poverty indicators via the ESRI. This issue is one of the strongest indicators. If someone is parenting on his or her own and does not have an opportunity early enough to return to education or training and, from there, move on to work, that person's chances of being fully financially independent are much reduced.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Family incomes are being cut.