Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Question 1: To ask the Minister for Social Protection if private contractors will be hired by her to operate one stop shops as announced in Budget 2012; if existing staff will be re-trained or re-deployed to meet the new demands; if the revenue implications of this decision have been detailed; if so, if she will provide details of same; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [11948/12]

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Question 2: To ask the Minister for Social Protection the way she intends to deliver the deeper and more regular engagement with NEES promised in Pathways to Work with fewer staff and less resources. [11950/12]

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.

Pathways to Work is a new approach to the provision of services to unemployed people, the objective of which is to reduce the level of long-term unemployment and, in so doing, to ensure the overall level of unemployment will reduce as the economy returns to growth.

In developing the policy the Government is acutely aware that the level of long-term unemployment at approximately 40% and unemployment among young people at approximately 30% could, as in previous recessions, become embedded and persist past the economic upturn. The Government is determined not to let this happen. There are two major elements to the Government's response – the action plan for jobs and pathways to work. The goal of the action plan for jobs is to create new jobs and the goal of Pathways to Work is to help ensure that as many as possible of those jobs, and other job vacancies, get filled by people from the live register.

Pathways to Work has five major strands. They include, more regular and ongoing engagement with people who are unemployed; greater targeting of activation places and opportunities; incentivising the take-up of opportunities; incentivising employers to provide more jobs for people who are unemployed; and reforming institutions to deliver better services to people who are unemployed.

The project plan for the National Employment and Entitlements Service, NEES, was approved by Government last June. Since then considerable progress has been made and the transfer of the community welfare service, CWS, and the FÁS employment service were completed on schedule in October 2011 and January 2012, respectively. The Department is now developing the new integrated service as set out in Pathways to Work. The new integrated service will be piloted from four office locations in May of this year and extended to a further ten offices by the end of the year.

As the question suggested, the roll-out of the new service will be very challenging for my Department and will require the allocation of additional internal staff and external resources to employment services and activation work. The transfer of approximately 1,700 staff from the CWS and FÁS, the majority of whom have significant experience in working with clients in a case management model has enhanced the capabilities of the Department in this regard. In addition, the Department is also engaged in a programme of systems development and process change that should enable staff from within its own resources to be deployed in accordance with the new model.

The use of external resources, including private sector providers of employment services, will be also considered. It must be noted however that the use of external resources is nothing new - the Department, previously FÁS, engages approximately 23 local employment service, LES, providers to provide employment services including job coaching, mentoring, and job search assistance to the people who are long-term unemployed and funds those activities to the value of €20 million per annum. Currently, approximately 300 staff are engaged by LES companies in the provision of employment services. The Department also has similar external contract arrangements in place to cater for the requirements of clients with disabilities who wish to return to the workforce.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

With regard to the use of private sector providers, the use of such providers is being evaluated by the Department. As part of this process the Department has reviewed the experience in a number of other countries and has met or had telephone conferences with its counterparts in France, the Netherlands, the UK, Germany and Norway. The Department has also met with Professor Dan Finn from the centre for social inclusion at the University of Portsmouth. Professor Finn is an acknowledged expert in the area of contracting public employment services. It is clear from the work done to date that the use of private sector providers is common throughout OECD countries with different models in place in different states. No firm proposals have been developed as yet but if, and when, such proposals are developed the issues raised by the experience of other countries will inform the approach taken by the Department and the issues raised by the Deputies will be also considered.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for her response to the priority question. She stated that some external contractors will be appointed to engage with the new staff when they have been trained. It will involve private companies engaging with social welfare claimants. Often that is a results-based contract where contractors are paid according to their success in getting claimants back to work. Similar situations arise in other countries such as Australia and the United States where private contractors have exploited the relationship by cherry-picking claimants most likely to return to work and avoiding the most difficult cases. In this instance, that would defeat the exercise. Could the Minister clarify the situation?

The Minister referred to 1,600 workers from FÁS coming to the Department, in addition to community welfare officers and the training that will be involved in augmenting the new programme. How much funding has been allocated for that purpose? Is there provision for the spend and has it been included in the allocation for the coming year?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Department is currently evaluating the various models operating in other countries. I expect to be able to develop proposals following the evaluation. I am extremely conscious of what the Deputy has referenced, which is the negative experiences in some countries, as well as positive experiences. In this country, using the local employment services model, we have experience of taking in people to provide services who are not civil servants through external agencies and companies. I hope we will use the best models that are available.

There is no compelling evidence one way or the other from international experiences about a greater effectiveness from the private sector. The net issue here is, given that so many people are unemployed and need assistance to get back into training and education, what additional resources do we require and what other models can develop and use, either within the public service or with the assistance on a selective basis of the private sector to improve the service to those who are unemployed? That is the net issue.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I listened to the Minister's reply. I welcomed the idea of the NEES that was outlined in the presentation, in addition to Pathways to Work on previous occasions. Yesterday, the Minister lost 246 staff from the Department as a result of the early retirement scheme and she is not replacing the majority of them.

The numbers applying for social welfare payments has been increasing across every scheme since the recession commenced. The Department's budget has been cut by €811 million. By 2014, its spending will have been cut by a further €1 billion. Has the Department the capacity to deliver a deeper and more regular engagement with jobseekers? There are more job-ready people than there are jobs. The European Vacancy Monitor, EVM, suggests one vacancy for every 50 jobseekers. This presents a large challenge. I am not being negative and I wish the Minister luck. The least that the unemployed deserve is a meaningful engagement with the Department, by which I mean a pathway to work, as suggested by the title of the initiative.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Deputy's concerns are shared by everyone. This represents a major change for the Department, which took in an extra 1,000 employees from the Community Welfare Service, CWS, an extra 700 employees from the FÁS employment services and approximately 300 people who work in local employment service companies to provide one-to-one monitoring. We are also investing heavily in the roll-out of additional computer systems and other developments, for example, the personal services card.

It is all change in the Department. Many of the additional CWS and FÁS personnel have considerable experience of one-to-one interactions with clients and customers, which is precisely the kind of background and experience that is required when providing intensive help to someone who has unfortunately become long-term unemployed.

As to resourcing the roll-out, staff in the public service are committed under the Croke Park agreement to responding to the requirements for change. Since I became Minister, intensive work has been under way in this regard. The Department's senior management is continuously and actively engaged in the process.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It all comes back to the fact that there are 50 jobseekers for every vacancy, which is well above the EU average. The Minister mentioned the large number of staff who have been taken on by her Department, but it has also taken on a large amount of extra work.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Absolutely.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The staff require a great deal of training. When can we expect the full roll-out of profiling, the group management or group hug-type idea and access to jobs and training, which are required if the plan is to work?

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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My initial question on the private companies to be taken on to initiate part of this process was in a similar vein, given the fact that staff have been lost and others are joining the Minister's Department from other Departments and will need to be trained. The Pathways to Work initiative is an honest effort to address this issue and we agree with the concept of the one-stop-shop, but the training, placement and correct management of the service will not be ready until later this year, if at all. For example, SOLAS will not be on stream for another year. Has the Minister explored the types of contracts and safeguards that will be developed for private companies or is she depending on prior experience with the companies in question?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The new system of drawing a profile or picture of new applicants has been tested. In the roll-out and testing to date, approximately 7,000 such profiles have been done. The model for the prediction of exit was developed in conjunction with the ESRI.

In May, we will launch four offices that will be models for the new integrated service. Their locations will be King's Inns Street, Tallaght, Arklow and Sligo. We will roll the initiative out to a further ten offices later this year. We have an ambitious roll-out programme.

The private sector can bring attributes to the table. We are examining models. However, reports seem to indicate that some models are not particularly appropriate for Ireland. For example, the cherry-picking that is payments by results has been criticised. There has been an active debate on this matter in the UK. On the other hand, good private sector models can probably bring expertise to the Department.

We have a large staff. Through the Croke Park agreement, staff in trade unions have agreed to co-operate with change. Their response to the roll-out of the new system, which is being led on the ground by senior management, has been positive. I look forward to positive outcomes but it represents a significant transformational change in the Department.