Dáil debates

Tuesday, 28 February 2012

Priority Questions

Public Sector Staff

2:00 pm

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Question 57: To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he is satisfied with the progress made by the transition teams put in place to manage the wave of retirements from the public sector in order that the delivery of key frontline services will be maintained; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11455/12]

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Question 58: To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the final number of public service employees who will leave the service between 1 January 2012 and 29 February 2012; if he has received a report from each of the five transition teams on the way the impact of the end of February retirements will be managed; if he has submitted to Government a memorandum of the reports received; and if he will provide details of the pro-active communications strategy to relay to the public the plans that are in place to deal with the impact of the retirements to end February. [11410/12]

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 57 and 58 together.

The latest information from across the public service indicates that 7,464 people have applied to retire in the first two months of the year. The sectorial breakdown of applications is health, 2,567; education, 2,058; Civil Service, 1,236; local authority, 931; defence, 362; and Garda, 310. This gives a total of 7,464.

When public service salaries were reduced in 2010, it was agreed by the then Government that persons retiring during a transitional, or grace, period would have their retirement benefits calculated on the basis of the previous payscale levels before the salary cut. That grace period will expire on 29 February 2012 in accordance with the law. Public service managers have known about the grace period for the past 18 months and have therefore had a long time to plan accordingly.

As the Deputies are aware, the Government has ensured that transition teams have been put in place in each of the sectors to deal with the specific short-term challenges arising from the ending of the grace period and to manage the process in their respective sectors. These teams are drawn from the existing workforce planning groups that have been in place for many months.

The transition teams have reported on their plans to manage the reduction in staff numbers arising from retirements to end-February and I have brought these proposals to Government. Based on the information received from the transition teams, I am satisfied that due consideration has been given by each of the sectors to the impact of the staffing reductions and the most appropriate and expeditious ways of managing the changes. The departures represent less than 3% of staff serving in the public service. Therefore, it would be unduly alarmist to categorise the exit as a "wave".

As they have the most current information on service provision at a local level, each sectoral transition team has been directed to actively communicate with the public via whichever means appropriate in order to allay concerns with regard to critical front-line service delivery. Public concerns about service levels should be addressed proactively and the public should be kept informed of business continuity arrangements that are being put in place. In the case of the Civil Service, material from the transition team process is available on my Department's website. For information on the wider public service, I would advise Members of the House to look at individual departmental websites.

Beyond the February 2012 grace period deadline, the strategic workforce planning groups in each sector will continue to ensure that sectoral employers develop plans to deal on an ongoing basis with the operational and strategic consequences of the changes and to keep the public informed step by step.

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on the issue. The Minister gave a general outline of the numbers leaving but he did not give any commitments in practice on the ground in terms of front line services. He has said that 2,567 people are leaving the health service in this eight week period, coupled with 1,800 who left immediately before Christmas. The 4,300 staff leaving the health service will cause problems on the front line, especially nursing grades. Every time we have spoken on this topic we speak about nursing grades. I believe Ministers are asking the Minister for concessions on Revenue staff and other staff. There should be a concession on a significant redeployment of nursing grade staff. This morning on the radio we heard that circulars have been sent to nursing unions suggesting a change from the 12-hour shift to a six-hour shift basis. If that is emerging in the 24 hours prior to people retiring, how can the Minister possibly expect proper arrangements to be put in place?

Will the Minister clarify the position on staff in the Department of Social Protection? Given that 246 staff are leaving, will the Minister ensure there will not be a further increase in delays in terms of processing means-tested payments such as jobseeker's allowance and carer's allowance and that arrangements will be in place for the appeals office with the line Minister, as some appeals are running over 12 months at the moment in cases where there is an oral hearing?

I am aware the Cabinet again discussed filling key vacancies in the Garda Síochána. In my constituency the chief superintendent has retired and two superintendents have retired in County Laois but there has not been any information about replacing them. Will the Minister give a commitment before this week is out on the filling of those posts?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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A number of questions were asked. I appreciate the Deputy's general concern on the matter. The exit at the end of this month is of the order of 3% of the public service. It is one of which we have had much notice and a lot of strategic planning has been ongoing. I cannot guarantee that there will not be a glitch because it will be the area in which we least expected a problem to arise. However, I do expect managers at local level to address problems as they arise and to solve them.

In terms of the specific points made, as the Deputy is aware, some nursing grades are not subject to the moratorium and they can be replaced immediately. Some €16 million is available to the HSE to fill critical grades. As all consultant posts are outside the embargo, they can be filled.

We need to examine different ways of delivering services. The process of downsizing the public service is being done in tandem with delivering services differently. The Deputy mentioned the Garda. Garda rosters have been in place since the 1970s, yet people have been trying to change them to put the maximum number of gardaí on the beat at the points and times they are most needed and the least number at the points and times they are least needed. This level of flexibility has not existed to date, but it will from 1 April. Across the public service, this level of flexibility is being found.

The Department of Social Protection has a large volume of staff. Indeed, its staff levels have increased, given the influx of community welfare officers and the FÁS cohort. Some of the latter went to the Department of Education and Skills. There will be redeployment, as there has been already. All of the issues in question will be addressed.

In the past fortnight, the Government approved 32 - I am going from memory - senior Garda appointments. We are reviewing staffing requirements on a case by case basis. Perhaps we can now consider what the best management structures for the public service are, including agencies and the Garda.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The figure is 3% of the entirety of the public service. The Minister referred to the extent of the planning done to date and the advance notice given in respect of the incentivised retirement package.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is not incentivised.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is, actually. One would not ordinarily see this type of exodus from the service without a clear incentive being in place.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will explain it again.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have not had sight of the individual sectoral reports that the Minister stated were on each Department's website, but I have with me the Civil Service sectoral plan. The contingency plans are contained in an appendix to the document, which can be found on the Minister's departmental website. What is striking is the fact that the appendix is scant on detail. It repeatedly makes assertions that redeployment will be the first port of call, but that the Government will be seeking additional sanctioned posts. The appendix does not supply numbers in that regard. Commitments on protecting front line services are made. The Courts Service has helpfully stated that it hopes to keep the courts operational, yet it is losing nearly 60 personnel.

There is no evidence of the type of detailed, robust planning that the Minister claims has been under way for some time. Will he give the House a stronger sense of the planning in respect of the Courts Service and our health services? Some 500 mental health nurses are due to exit the system. Money has been ring-fenced for 400 new personnel, but that will leave us 100 short. This is the mathematics of it. There comes a point at which one cannot do more with less.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will answer the last question first. The mathematics of it is that we are downsizing. It is a falsehood to claim that, after reducing the full quantum, one must add everyone back again. The idea is to do things better and more efficiently and to change work practices. This is the maths of it from the Government's perspective.

We have been involved in planning this process for each sector for months. For example, the Minister for Education and Skills laid out his plans in the House months ago and I have repeatedly heard spokespersons from the HSE outlining its detailed plans right down to hospital health care level.

The Deputy referred to advance notice. I sought three months notice from everyone who wanted to avail of it. People were not required to do so, but many did, which gave us a good idea of most of the numbers leaving so we could account for them. The Deputy is wrong, as she knows, in regard to incentivised schemes. This is simply the playing out of the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act 2009, which came into force in 2010. That Act provided for a grace period in which people could avail of their pre-cut retirement conditions, in other words, calculate their lump sums and pension rights based on their old salary levels. The Government is not providing an incentive. These are people who are approaching retirement and the previous Dáil enacted legislation to allow them to hold on to their pre-cut pensions and lump sums if they retired by a certain deadline. That deadline has now arrived and we are going to deal with the matter. They are not being incentivised by design nor are they part of a programme of targeting individual areas. The next phase of downsizing will certainly be targeted.

On the specific points raised by the Deputy regarding the Civil Service, the information is on the website. Local managers in Departments and offices are individually reporting to my Department and they have not signalled difficulties in respect of Civil Service provisions. It is important that local managers are allowed to manage. I do not sit in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform individually controlling and managing every local office of the public service.

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister stated that his workforce planning groups have been in operation for quite some time but when the Taoiseach indicated there was a need to appoint transition teams and drew staff from the planning groups for this purpose, he must not have been satisfied with them. Will the Minister explain why it was necessary to change the processes applying to the workforce planning groups?

He used a new phrase when he referred to the next phase of downsizing for the public service. He might like to elaborate on his comment because we have just completed the voluntary retirement scheme. He said it will be targeted. Will he confirm that it will not include a compulsory element?

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It will be news to virtually all the retiring public servants that the incentivised exit mechanism was not in fact an incentive but we will agree to differ on the semantics of it.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is that a question?

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister stated that the objective is to downsize further. I ask him to explain what he means by that. I presume he is envisaging something that falls within the parameters of the Croke Park agreement. He might enlighten us in this regard. He also says the objective is to act more effectively and efficiently but his record to date has been purely about reducing headcount via an incentivised scheme for people to exit the service early. Nothing in the master plan or the planning, scant as it is, addresses the question of improving excellence in service provision or efficiency. The Minister is engaged in a crude cull.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That was more a speech than a question but I will deal with the two points raised. On Deputy Fleming's questions, the workforce planning teams became transition teams and were augmented-----

Photo of Seán FlemingSeán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Same thing, new title.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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No, it was the critical final phase when the numbers were clear. As the Taoiseach rightly felt, we needed an even more proactive engagement and the workforce planning teams that had been established in every sector became transition teams and brought in additional expertise to ensure, as best we could, everything was running smoothly. We may face problems but I hope we do not because we have done everything that is humanly possible.

In regard to downsizing, we have set targets for reducing public sector numbers between now and 2015. It will be done within the umbrella of the Croke Park agreement, which means there will be no compulsory redundancies.

Deputy McDonald accused me of being fixated with numbers. I am fixated with two things, namely, restoring the economic sovereignty of our State, which is a job I have been given, and reforming the public service. That is why we have a Department dedicated to both economic management and political and Civil Service reform. We will do both and are in the process of doing both. In the first year we have achieved a remarkable amount.