Dáil debates

Tuesday, 24 January 2012

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed)

EU Council Meetings

3:00 pm

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach his key demands at the last EU summit and the way these objectives fared; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1907/12]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach the meetings or contacts he has had with other EU leaders since the EU Summit meeting in Brussels on 9 December 2011. [1909/12]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach if he has any bilaterals planned for the months of January and February; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1923/12]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach his views on the proposal to introduce a transactions tax in the EU, particularly if our nearest neighbours in the UK were not to so do; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1929/12]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach the issues he discussed with the Prime Minister of Hungary, Mr Viktor Orban, in the course of their meeting in Government Buildings on 1 June 2011; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1996/12]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach the number of occasions he met with the Prime Minister of Hungary, Mr Viktor Orban, in 2011, including EU summits; the date of each of these meetings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1997/12]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach if he has been in direct contact with the Dutch Prime Minister, Mark Rutte, since the proposed EU intergovernmental treaty and subsequent to this or since his decision not to hold a referendum on same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2324/12]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach if he raised the issue of unemployment during his discussions with EU leaders on the fiscal compact on 9 December 2011; his views that the fiscal compact adequately addresses the issue of jobs and employment; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2331/12]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach if he has raised the issue of economic growth in Europe during his discussions with EU leaders on the fiscal compact on 9 December 2011; his views that the fiscal compact adequately addresses the issue of poor and slowing growth in the Irish and European economies; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2332/12]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach if he discussed the EU fiscal compact with the British Prime Minister during his meeting on 12 January 2012. [3299/12]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 11: To ask the Taoiseach the issues he will be prioritising at the European Council summit meeting on 30 January. [3300/12]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 12: To ask the Taoiseach if he will raise the issue of Anglo Promissory Note at the forthcoming meeting of the EU Council on 30 January. [3301/12]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 13: To ask the Taoiseach the proposals he plans to table at the EU Council summit meeting on 30 January. [3302/12]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 14: To ask the Taoiseach the bilateral meetings he plans to have with other leaders at the EU summit meeting on 30 January. [3303/12]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 15: To ask the Taoiseach the contacts he has had with other EU leaders since the last meeting of the EU Council. [3304/12]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 16: To ask the Taoiseach his objectives arising from the EU Summit on the 30 January 2012. [3674/12]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 17: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report back on the EU summit dating back to the 9 December 2011. [3676/12]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 18: To ask the Taoiseach the discussions he has had with Chancellor Merkel since the last EU Summit. [3677/12]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 19: To ask the Taoiseach if he intends to raise the issue of the possibility of a referendum in Ireland on the EU fiscal compact at the forthcoming EU summit meeting. [3737/12]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Question 20: To ask the Taoiseach the issues he intends to raise at the forthcoming EU summit on 30 January; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3810/12]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Question 21: To ask the Taoiseach if he intends to raise the issue of downgrading of growth projections for the Irish, European and global economies at the forthcoming EU summit on 30 January; the effects of this in terms of the current strategy being pursued to deal with the economic crisis; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3811/12]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Question 22: To ask the Taoiseach if he intends to raise the issue of jobs, economic growth and investment at the forthcoming EU summit on 30 January and the urgent need to take action on these matters if there is to be economic recovery; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3812/12]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Question 23: To ask the Taoiseach his views on the points he intends to make at the forthcoming EU summit on 30 January in relation to the proposed fiscal compact and the possibility of a referendum in Ireland on the proposed inter Governmental treaty; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3813/12]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Question 24: To ask the Taoiseach if he will raise the issue of the downgrading of the EFSF and other Eurozone countries by rating agencies at the forthcoming EU summit on 30 January; the implications for Ireland and the wider Eurozone; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3814/12]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 24, inclusive, together.

All of the questions relate to the European Council or the Heads of Government meeting. I attended the European Council in Brussels on 8 and 9 December. As I have already made a statement to the House on these meetings, I will confine myself to some brief remarks on their proceedings.

Important steps were taken at the European Council on budgetary discipline within the euro area and firewalls, both of which are issues of importance to Ireland, and progress was made towards taking Europe beyond the current crisis. In particular, leaders agreed to strengthen economic policy co-ordination further within the euro area by way of an intergovernmental agreement to construct a new fiscal compact. Intensive negotiations are under way on a draft treaty to give legal effect to this agreement. Leaders will aim to finalise work at an informal meeting of the European Council scheduled to take place in Brussels on 30 January. Once agreement is reached, the text will then be prepared for signature and subsequent ratification by each of the participants according to their respective constitutional requirements.

The December European Council also took stock of what needs to be done to lift Europe out of the current crisis situation. The need to continue structural reform and fiscal consolidation as a means to secure a return to sustainable growth was agreed. The European Council highlighted the need to adopt swiftly measures with most potential to boost growth and jobs across Europe. There is a real recognition at European level that addressing the need for sustainable jobs and growth is critical. This will also be a focus for discussions at the informal meeting next week, and I will support efforts in this regard strongly. There will be no real recovery in Europe without growth.

The European Council also tracked progress under the euro plus pact and followed up on the issue of energy. In addition, enlargement issues featured, and the signature of the Croatian accession treaty took place in the margins of the meeting. The European Council also agreed conclusions on Iran, Syria and Afghanistan.

Ahead of last month's European Council, my strong view was that the meeting had to address two key issues: the need for strengthened firewalls and the need to strengthen governance structures. The outcome of the meeting represents positive progress in both regards. There is always scope to do more and I look forward to participating actively in discussions in the period ahead.

In advance of the meeting, I wrote to President Van Rompuy and I also had a telephone conversation with him on the eve of the meeting. I set out for him the uniquely onerous burden being carried by the Irish people as a result of the steps we have taken to recapitalise our banks. I said that I believed Ireland should be able to access new instruments available at EU level - for example, new flexibilities within the EFSF - which were not available at the time and which would make the burden more manageable. As the House will be aware, work is being taken forward on this matter by the Minister for Finance and his officials.

Looking forward, I will attend the informal meeting of EU Heads of State and Government in Brussels on Monday, 30 January. As I will make a statement to the House on this meeting later this afternoon, I will again confine myself to some brief remarks on this meeting. While there is no formal agenda, there will be two key issues on the table: the new treaty and the vitally important question of jobs and growth. On the treaty, our primary objective is to ensure an outcome that strengthens the stability of the euro area and that protects Irish interests. We have sought to build support and understanding for our positions and to cultivate alliances with partners across a range of specific issues which matter to us, including the need to reflect Ireland's status as a programme country; the need for an appropriate basis for incorporating a debt brake at national level; the need for a workable application of structural balance rule; and the importance of ensuring that as much of the contents of this treaty as possible are put on a clear European Union legislative footing.

This last point is an important one. Indeed, I would go further and state clearly that I strongly wish to see the contents of this agreement incorporated, at the earliest possible opportunity, into the legal framework of the European Union. We believe that such an approach would serve to lend clarity and would help to prevent any damage to the Union, its institutions and its established processes. The Government and I will continue to work to ensure Ireland's interests are reflected in order that we are in a position to ratify the treaty when agreed, including putting it to the people in a referendum, if necessary. However, I reiterate to the House again today that it is only when a final text is available and the Attorney General studies the legal implications that it will be possible to reach a view on what is required. The House can rest assured that whatever path toward ratification is required, it will be fully involved in the process.

The informal meeting of the European Council is also expected to discuss measures to promote growth and create jobs throughout Europe. I will support these efforts, working with like-minded countries to ensure an outcome which boosts our small and medium-sized enterprises, SMEs, improves conditions for access to credit, investment in research and development, and bolsters key parts of the Single Market which are especially important to Ireland, including the digital agenda. To this end, we have submitted to the President of the European Council two joint contributions from Ireland, the Netherlands, Sweden, the UK, Finland and Estonia as inputs to the preparation of next Monday's informal European Council meeting. The first paper is on growth and focuses on measures such as completion of the Single Market, reducing the regulatory burden on SMEs and better targeting of labour market supports, including a new focus on youth unemployment. The paper also calls for proposals to ensure that all actions at European Union level fully support economic growth and job creation.

The second paper includes proposals on building the digital single market, particularly in the area of copyright. It focuses on measures to improve digital rights management conditions and creating cross-border pan-European licensing schemes.

I had a working lunch with Prime Minister Mr. Viktor Orbán of Hungary in Government Buildings on 1 June last year during Hungary's Presidency of the Council of Ministers. That meeting was an opportunity to survey some of the issues then on the EU agenda, especially economic questions. I took the opportunity to brief the Prime Minister, Mr. Orbán on efforts under way to improve Ireland's economic position, including through implementation of the EU-IMF programme. The Prime Minister, Mr. Orbán touched on some other issues with which the Hungarian Presidency had been dealing, including the negotiations on Croatian accession and the package of legislation on economic governance then being advanced. The House will be aware of the recent Croatian decision by way of a vote.

The Prime Minister, Mr. Orbán and I attended the European Council meetings on 11 March, 24 and 25 March, 23 and 24 June, 23 October, 26 October and 8 and 9 December 2011 and the Eastern Partnership Summit in Warsaw on 29 and 30 September.

I met the Prime Minister Mr. Cameron on 12 January in London. I am also in ongoing informal contact with my colleagues from the European Council. I plan to have a bilateral meeting with the Danish Prime Minister Ms Helle Thorning-Schmidt and the Prime Minister Mr. Jyrki Katainen of Finland while I attend the World Economic Forum in Davos on 26 January. I may have further meetings while there. I spoke this morning to Chancellor Mr. Werner Faymann of Austria and will have further conversations with a number of colleagues ahead of next week's meeting.

With regard to the Commission proposal for a financial transaction tax, FTT, we have made it very clear that such a transaction tax should apply on a global basis. We are also firmly of the view that, to avoid distortions of financial transactions within the Single Market, any introduction of a tax in the European Union should include all member states. The application of such an FTT here in Dublin but not in our closest neighbour in the City of London could have an adverse impact upon our International Financial Services Centre, which is of such critical importance to the Irish economy.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I take issue with the fact that we are taking 24 questions together, eight of which are mine. Perhaps if I could deal with one of them in this space, the Ceann Comhairle might allow me to contribute again later.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will allow everyone to contribute again. Deputy Adams can ask two questions initially, after which I will revert to everybody.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Despite the Taoiseach's efforts, I can learn a great deal from this answer. In reply to Deputy Finian McGrath, the Taoiseach stated that, if the Irish Government was as powerful as the Deputy suggested, it would have dealt with the troika very effectively. Implicitly, the Government has not dealt with the troika very effectively. More importantly, there is some evidence of a little bit of an inferiority complex. This Government has the same rights and entitlements as the government of any other state dealing with these issues.

I welcome the fact that the Taoiseach has met many of his counterparts informally, spoken with them via telephone or written to them, but does the Government agree with sanctions being imposed on member states that surpass the 0.5% deficit requirement? Does it not know that the austerity budgets that must be implemented by this and other states must continue beyond 2015, the year required by our EU-IMF programme, and past the Government's term? It might even be generational. What is the Government's position on these possible sanctions and has it made its position clear?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We have dealt with the troika very effectively. We are part of the Union and the eurozone and, as such, are a respected member. Due to the openness and trust engendered between Ministers and the troika, as the Deputy is aware, quite a number of changes to the original memorandum of understanding have been brought about in the interests of the Government's programme for Government and the Irish taxpayer and Irish citizen.

The issue of the structural balance is one that has been at the centre of quite a deal of discussion over the past period. I am happy now with the transparency that is in here and with the requirement to have a structure that will deal with that in respect of each individual country. It is fair to say that we agree with fiscal discipline and better governance. From that point of view, there have been some further discussions and progress has been made at the technical level in regard to the issue of sanctions, where the European Court of Justice would be the determining body over whether a country was out of line but where the Commission should be the implementing body, which would root it in the legal requirement of the European Union treaties, which is important from everybody's perspective.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I am glad to get that little bit of information, but the Taoiseach is handing over more authority from the Government to the European Court of Justice. This is clear from the draft of the treaty that I read.

The Taoiseach did not tell me whether he was for the sanctions. I would like clarity on that matter. It is obvious that the Taoiseach is for the treaty. He has been clear on that issue at least. I will ask him again. Given the ongoing surrender of significant control of Irish fiscal and budgetary matters to officials and unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats, is it not time to take a step back, review the situation, reflect on it and take a different approach, one that is about producing measures to stabilise the euro through investment in jobs and negotiating a write down of toxic banking debt on behalf of indebted citizens, including our own?

If the Government insists on proceeding with this austerity budget, a decision with which I am disappointed, it should at least go to the people. Do not dance on the head of a pin concerning the Attorney General. The Government should accept the democratic imperative that, in a republic, the citizens must have their say, particularly when the Government is giving away so much of what remains of the sovereignty, fiscal power and other authority that is vested by Irish citizens in the Oireachtas.

4:00 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The first point I will make is that this country no longer controls its economic destiny by virtue of the fact that we are in a programme. The programme that we are in ends in 2013. That programme supersedes the issues that are currently under discussion in terms of the international agreement on this treaty. The language surrounding the introduction of the European Stability Mechanism, ESM, is important in this sense. Any programme country - obviously, I would like to see Ireland out of its programme as quickly as possible - should be able to link itself to the possibility, if it required the ESM, of being able to avail of it.

In regard to the referendum, there will not be dancing on the head of a pin here. It took Deputy Adams quite a long time to recognise the legitimacy of the democracy we have here, and I am glad he did. As part of that democracy, the procedure is for the Government of the day, in regard to any transfer of competence in terms of Bunreacht na hÉireann, to ask the Attorney General of the day for formal legal advice. On the basis of that formal legal advice, the Government of the day forms its view. I have made it perfectly clear in my reply to the Ceann Comhairle and the House that, when the text is finalised at the Heads of Government meeting on Monday and is prepared for signature, then and only then will the Attorney General be asked for formal legal advice. If that legal advice clearly indicates that a referendum is necessary, then a referendum will be held. I hope this is clear. From that point of view, we will go through the process, which is well recognised in this democracy and has stood the test of time over very many years. I hope that answers Deputy Adams's question.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The lack of involvement by the Taoiseach and Tánaiste in meeting other leaders gets starker all the time. In the lead-up to the last summit, the Taoiseach failed to outline to the Dáil the demands he would present. Just before the summit he gave RTE a copy of a letter which he had sent to the President of the European Council, Mr. Van Rompuy, which included some details. Without going around the houses, will the Taoiseach tell the House exactly what proposals he has made to other leaders before the upcoming summit? Will he clarify whether he has circulated any paper and, if so, will he make that paper available to this House?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I made it perfectly clear that our demands were that there be proper and adequate firewalls to prevent contagion, that there should be better governance of how the operation is run, and that budgetary discipline be prioritised. Those are the three key demands. It is not a case that when one attends a European Council meeting the agenda will include a list of sub-items submitted by this country or that country. The process is that Mr. Van Rompuy determines the agenda based on the connections he has with all countries. As I said, the issues were firewalls, budgetary discipline and better governance.

Ireland, along with the other countries I listed in my reply, has submitted two papers for Monday's informal meeting, both in respect of SMEs and the way in which we can have access to credit and so on. Growth and jobs are central to the recovery of Europe. It often happens, as the Deputy is aware, that Governments and personalities can get involved in interminable institutional arguments such that we lose sight of what is critical for the development of the Union and the achievement of the full potential of the Single Market, that is, growth and jobs. Ireland, together with several other countries, has submitted a paper on that. In my discussions with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Cameron, in the past fortnight, we agreed that both Ireland and Britain would submit papers to colleagues at the table and to the Commission proposing that growth and jobs would be central to the decision-making process of Europe, either through regulation or at directive level, so that when the legislative process begins, people's focus would be on that at all times. These are the issues of importance to us.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach may have heard the saying, "Is mór idir é agus an chosúlacht". He said in his reply that the proposals are tabled by the President of the European Council, Mr. Van Rompuy. The public has the impression, however, that the people putting forward the proposals are the French President, Mr. Sarkozy, and the German Chancellor, Ms Merkel, whose six-point agenda will be pushed at the upcoming summit. What has the Taoiseach done to discuss this agenda with them? Does he agree that the entire concept of the Union is being undermined by the bilateral approach of these countries?

Soon after assuming office, the Taoiseach said he saw a great difference between substantive meetings with other leaders and ones which involved chats at the margins of larger meetings. It is fair to say that in terms of EU business, the Taoiseach has had one formal bilateral. He has met his British counterpart, of course, but he has had only one formal bilateral in regard to Europe. Will he tell the House whether that policy will change?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Ministers of this Government attend their meetings, in contrast to behaviour in the past. That is the first point. It is not a case of President Van Rompuy speaking only to certain people. There are consultations with every country and every leader. The main items on the agenda are determined long in advance and, given the crisis we have had in the eurozone for the past three years, firewalls, budgetary discipline and better governance procedures are central to all of those. They have been the subject of the discussions at the EU Heads of Government meetings since I had the privilege of being elected Taoiseach. They are central to all discussions.

I am a strong supporter of the communautaire method, which involves the Commission and all of the member states. I have never been afraid to say that and have done so on many occasions. Clearly, countries that are contributing to the funds to keep other countries moving - funds which must be repaid - have an interest in seeing that where payments are made, conditions are accepted and adhered to by the receiving countries. That is the reason for the anxiety in respect of putting together what is now an intergovernmental treaty to bring that about from a political point of view. That is why all the intensive discussions that have taken place are to find a formula of words that can accommodate that.

I am leader of a party and Government which are very focused on the potential of the European Union. The Union was founded on the principles of solidarity, co-operation and trust. From that perspective, the communautaire method and the Commission are vital to the future prospects of the European Union. I am of the view, however, and I hope the matter can be concluded successfully, that when these matters are resolved, everyone will understand the importance of playing their part in a European Union that has let itself slip over the years by not focusing on the realisation of its true potential. I hope, following the conclusion of the intergovernmental agreement and its ratification, by whatever method, by the countries involved, that Europe can then have adequate firewalls and will have clearly arrived at a political situation where there is budgetary discipline, conditions applying and sanctions imposed on countries which step out of line.

Ireland will continue to measure up in order to get out of this programme as quickly as we can. Our objective is to regain our economic independence in order that we can decide as a Government, in co-operation with our European Union colleagues, what is in the best interest of our country, our people and our children's future.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Does the Taoiseach agree this is not about forms of words, but rather about the brutal austerity that has been imposed on people in this country for the past three years which has led to a massacre of jobs, a massacre of our public services and attacks on the most vulnerable in our society to the point where many people are on their knees? All of that resulted from a decision by governments in this and other European countries to bail out banks at all costs and to impose austerity. Given the obvious disastrous consequences of three years of austerity and bailing out banks, how on earth can the Taoiseach or other European leaders expect that institutionalising austerity in the form of a euro compact will make things any better? Surely it is absolutely inevitable that it will do exactly the same as it has done in the past three years. By prioritising banks and their balance sheets and insisting on the imposition of austerity on ordinary people, one will get the same result and the situation will get even worse.

The Taoiseach referred to firewalls against contagion in the eurozone. Where are the firewalls for the unemployed in the euro compact? Where are the firewalls for the vulnerable? Where are the firewalls for workers? My colleagues and I from the Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform met the German ambassador earlier today. He told us that announcements would be made on Monday regarding stimulus measures and job creation. He did not say much about what these measures would involve but that, given the demand for fiscal rectitude and austerity, they would hinge on competitiveness. What the hell does that mean? When wages have been ratcheted down to the extent that most low and middle income workers in this country have been impoverished, when we have 400,000 unemployed and the numbers on the streets are multiplying daily, what does competitiveness mean? Does it mean the country must be starving before investment magically floods back into it, following which everything will be all right again? Where are the proposals in the euro compact for job creation? Where are the proposals that will ensure investment? If we do not get people back to work or do not have investment to make this happen, we are on the road towards a 1930s-type crisis. Even Christine Lagarde of the IMF is saying this. I cannot understand how the Government is slapping itself on the back for signing up to a treaty that will mean austerity and suffering for the people in perpetuity. Perhaps the Taoiseach might explain where this is leading.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is the Deputy's usual rant. I prioritise people over banks. The Deputy was not in the Chamber when I responded to Deputy Gerry Adams's question about bondholders and so on. The European Central Bank has made available to this country €110 billion, at an interest rate of 1%, to enable us to run services. The Deputy will agree that that is a phenomenal amount of money. He is engaging in magic finance methods in terms of his belief our bills can be met and that no one will have to pay as a consequence. It is not nice to have to stand up and say the money must be repaid.

The Deputy spoke about people's vulnerability, rightly so, and the impact of austerity and unemployment. The Government is focused on what it can do, within the limits imposed on us by virtue of our financial circumstances, to improve the lot of the people. In this regard, it has reduced PRSI contributions for particular sectors, removed 330,000 people from liability for the universal social charge, restored the national minimum wage, made available, through the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, houses in NAMA for those in need of social housing and will, through the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, introduce an action plan designed to stimulate job creation, investment and sustainability, which I know the Deputy will support. Also, the Minister for Social Protection will bring forward a range of initiatives to ensure persons on the live register who want to contribute to the economy will have an opportunity to retrain and upskill, leading, it is hoped, to their finding a job.

Despite the doom and gloom, the standard comments of many, including the Deputy, between March and October last year 125,000 individuals moved off the live register. I acknowledge they were replaced by others, but this is an indication of the extent of movement within the labour market, which is what we need to capture. Decisions such as the proposed investment of €250 million announced two weeks ago are statements of intent to invest in the country. The Government wants to focus on increasing the indigenous economy and confidence in it in order that people can spend. It was for this reason that the Minister for Finance included in the budget the stipulation that mortgage interest relief be available for seven years to those who purchased houses. However, this does not apply to commercial activity involving the block purchasing of property held for seven years in order that no capital gains would accrue. These are direct stimuli to the indigenous economy in the hope it will start to move. Given the extent of money available, the Government is focused on attracting it, by way of pension funds and so on, for investment in job creation.

The two papers submitted by Ireland and a number of other countries which deal with the digital single market and its potential are due for consideration on Monday. The text submitted by Ireland and a number of other countries which will have a direct impact on growth is also due for consideration on Monday. These two issues are central to achieving progress at the European Council meeting and we will support them vigorously.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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One can always point to this or that glimmer of light. We are all looking for such glimmers. However, the facts speak for themselves. It is not only the doom and gloom merchants - the Taoiseach describes us as such - who are criticising this approach. Christine Lagarde, someone very far away from me in terms of her viewpoint on economics and politics, is saying we are heading towards a 1930s style depression unless we solve our problems. The reason she is saying this is yet again today the IMF has downgraded its growth projections. The December figures for the retail sector in Ireland indicate that the sector is in real trouble. We are in decline and must face reality. There can be no jobs and growth without substantial investment. Investment has collapsed.

Where in the euro compact or among the EU leaders is the plan for us to achieve a recommencement of investment? I put it to the Taoiseach that there is none. The euro compact is about balancing the books with an ever diminishing cake. One can try to balance the books all one likes, but if the cake is diminishing, it means suffering and that there will be no economic growth. Where are the proposals for serious investment in the digital and other sectors which we know have the potential to develop? There is no sign of such investment. The reason for this is the Government's decision that all funds will be placed in the vaults of bondholders and banks. We are not the only ones who are saying this: Roubini and Stiglitz are saying it. Anyone looking at the situation objectively is saying this cannot work. Why, therefore, are we signing up to it? Why can we not at least have a debate on whether this is the best way to go?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There will be a discussion on that matter later, to which I assume the Deputy will contribute, although I do not know if he will have anything different to say. It is necessary for us to be involved in this structure because we are the recipients, through the covered banks, of €110 billion to run services. We are faced with this problem because of the extensive recapitalisation of the banks at high interest rates prior to the ESF and the ESM and the need to close the deficit which will not close by itself despite the fact that the Deputy believes it will.

I note Christine Lagarde's comments. She is a good friend of this country who has made it perfectly clear that there is a need for strong leadership at European Union level and adequate firewalls to be built in, particularly in her comments in respect of Italy where Prime Minister Monti is making huge strides and also in respect of Spain. Former Commissioner Fischler said yesterday that the implications were clear if we decided to go down the road towards default.

The Deputy will recall that a number of weeks ago a figure of €17 billion was provided for in the capital programme. The Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation is one of a few in respect of which an increase was provided for because of the requirement for job creation and the importance of innovation and research and what could emerge from them in terms of job creation. The Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, is well down the road in introducing legislation to deal with the issue of credit access and partial guarantees in order that people can access credit from banks, which is crucial in terms of what we must do.

The Economic Management Council which I chair will shortly meet the banks for the second time for a frank discussion on bank lending policies. I have heard stories from many small businesses which have not been able to access credit. We must deal with this issue. The two covered banks, Bank of Ireland and Allied Irish Banks, have signed on to lend €3.5 billion in 2012. The Government wants to see this happen for small businesses. I do not know if the Deputy often has an opportunity to travel outside his constituency, but perhaps he might undertake a tour of the country to speak to those small and medium-sized enterprises and hard-pressed retailers who cannot access the credit they need.

Photo of Shane McEnteeShane McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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He should visit the show in the RDS.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is the reason Ministers are introducing legislation to deal with that issue. Moreover, the reason the Government will establish a micro-finance start-up agency to provide them with a stimulus is because they wish to employ people. They want to get out of this recession and to play their part in building confidence. Everywhere I go, big and small operations are focused on getting out of this mess our country has inherited. This is the reason the Government is making various decisions such as providing a capital programme of €17 billion and providing specific stimuli within the budget by way of taxation decisions and by way of the finance Bill, as well as through legislation. It is so doing in order that people can focus, within the constraints under which we operate, on what can be done.

Moreover, this is being followed by the labour activation measures the Minister for Social Protection will launch shortly and which are designed to give a sense of confidence and hope to the many people who find themselves obliged to watch television during the middle of the day when the vast majority of them wish to get out and contribute to the country's well-being. The Deputy should turn his thoughts to assisting those people, rather than being on the rant of disillusionment and despair I hear him voice each time he appears in the Chamber.

Photo of Shane McEnteeShane McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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He might visit the major show under way at the RDS.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The point is that when the Government takes €3.8 billion out of the economy in a single year and when it drives down the living standards of middle and low-income workers, it is achieving precisely the opposite of that to which the Taoiseach states it aspires. Moreover, the Government's labour activation measures, which is a despicable term, are designed to put pressure on people who have been cast into unemployment to go into the lowest-paid jobs the Government is facilitating the bosses to implement legally. This is reprehensible and will not be economically successful.

Does the Taoiseach not realise the crisis in Europe is a crisis of the financial system? The capitalist financial system in Europe is in an appalling crisis because of the craziness of that system. For example, is the Taoiseach aware that the fund of €400 billion to €500 billion made available by the European Central Bank for European banks has been massively taken up but that the week before last, when approximately €450 billion had been borrowed by the banks from that fund, precisely the same amount had been deposited back by the same banks? This is because they are not investing but are on a strike of capital because it is not profitable for them. Against this background, does the Taoiseach not acknowledge it is insane to design a straitjacket for member states of the European Union with regard to the necessity for economic policy that expands the economy and provides stimulus job creation programmes, which are desperately needed at present? The Taoiseach seeks the incorporation of this so-called fiscal compact, which is in fact an austerity treaty, into the treaties of the European Union. Does he not understand that by so doing, he is spancelling the member states from taking action at decisive times, which is critical to kick-start economic life precisely to counteract the effects of the strike of capital and the fact that the markets simply are not working for people?

Does the Taoiseach not realise that borrowing of itself has not been a problem but that borrowing by spivs and speculators for speculation and short-term private gain has caused the crisis here and throughout Europe? Does he not realise that emergency investment in, for example, job creation, which can involve borrowing, can be critical to kick-starting the economy and getting this State out of the mire of deflation and mass unemployment to which the Government's policies are condemning it?

The Taoiseach has stated that he does not know whether a referendum would be needed. I put it to him that he does know or should know that the last version of this proposed austerity treaty of which Members have had sight refers to a balanced budget and an automatic mechanism to take corrective action. Is the Taoiseach aware that a referendum was called in regard to transferring powers of this State to the International Criminal Court because it was formally transferring powers previously vested exclusively in the organs of our national Government? Does the Taoiseach not agree that what the Government proposes to do in this treaty is to transfer over powers now invested in the national Government or the Parliament to outside agencies? Is it not clear this will require a referendum? In any case, if the Government proposes to spancel the people to this austerity treaty with all the serious economic consequences that would have, it should give them the opportunity to have a major debate and to vote on it.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Higgins for that long dissertation and preamble. He speaks in respect of middle and low-income workers. Because the Government has a concern about this and every other sector of society, it entered serious negotiations with the troika to make changes to the original memorandum of understanding. This is the reason, based on those discussions, that results were achieved in making no change to income tax in the recent budget. This allowed people to look at their pay cheque in January and to see no change in income tax from the position that obtained in December. This is the reason, as I told Deputy Boyd Barrett, the Government made changes to the universal social charge that removed 330,000 people from its scope. These changes and the reversal of the cut in the minimum wage meant that 36,000 people were restored in this regard. In addition, the figure of €17 billion over the lifetime of the Government for a capital programme to which I already have referred speaks for itself. Moreover, 23,000 people are employed in community employment schemes, as well as another 5,000 people between the JobBridge and Tús programmes. Many of those people now are being offered full-time employment because of their performance on training schemes and on temporary work with specialist firms.

Consequently, the emphasis of the Government at present is to deal with the requirement to be able to ease the burden of repayment, based on the excessive amounts borrowed, to recapitalise the banks in the first place. Ireland has not sought a write-down and in that context, the discussions now are at a point at which the troika itself put forward the proposition that a paper should be prepared based on the unique and onerous challenge that Ireland faces in this regard. When that paper is produced and finalised, it will have the status of a troika presentation to our colleagues around the table.

The Deputy spoke of the issue of a referendum. While I believe I dealt with this matter before the Deputy entered the Chamber, perhaps he was present for some of the time. The democracy in which Members work means the Attorney General of the day makes his or her view known formally and legally when requested to so do by the Government. However, the Deputy specifically referred to the question of the transfer of powers from the European Court of Justice to an intergovernmental treaty. The discussions taking place yesterday were to the effect that while one might prefer to be able to deal with that element of the discussions by way of secondary legislation, which would as a consequence be rooted in the European Union treaties - I understand that progress has been made in that regard, in that the European Court of Justice would be the determining body of a country having strayed outside the conditions of the intergovernmental treaty - it would be the European Commission that would be the sanctioning entity which is directly rooted in the EU treaties as a fundamentally important European Union institution. Nobody in the Oireachtas is in a position to give the Deputy a definitive answer today as to whether a referendum will be required in the context of non-compliance with Bunreacht na hÉireann. It will only be on Monday next, when the text of the intergovernmental agreement, from a legal perspective, has been presented and signed off on, that the Attorney General will be asked to provide her formal legal advice. That is the position on the Deputy's specific comment about the European Court of Justice.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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That is in the event the Government does not consider, for other reasons, that there should be a referendum. There is nothing which bars the Government from holding a referendum. The people have experienced three years of ongoing austerity, cuts, attacks on their living standards and the stripping down of services in the pursuit of a ruinous policy of bailing out bankers and financial institutions. That policy is killing the economy. I put it to the Taoiseach that holding a referendum would give the people the opportunity to exercise their democratic right just over one year after they went to the polls in the general election. Those in government promised to put in place fundamentally different policies from those pursued by their predecessors. However, since entering office they have performed an about face and aped - almost to the dot and comma - the austerity policies of their predecessors. In the context of justice, democracy and fairness, the people should be given a say.

Is the Government afraid to go to the people, engage with them in a democratic discussion and then allow them to vote? Is that the real issue? Can the Taoiseach not see that handing over essential elements of control of the economy and fiscal policy of one of the member states of the European Union to the right-wing, neoliberal European Commission which is anti-public sector and pro-privatisation in every way and never misses an opportunity to come down in favour of the corporate sector at the expense of working people represents a serious surrender of the rights of the people he claims to represent?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy returns to his airgead draíochta, his fantasy economics. He seems to think the money to pay our bills can be presented out of thin air and that nobody will be obliged to foot the cost in this regard.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is the workers who pay all the bills.

Photo of Ray ButlerRay Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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We are all workers.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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What about the bondholders?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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A Government elected since the foundation of the State is only required to hold a referendum where there is a proposal to change the Constitution. On issues relating to the European Union, if the Attorney General of the day is of the view that, in the context of formal legal advice, there is a transfer of competency which requires compliance with the Constitution, a referendum is required. I want the Deputy to clearly understand the Government has no fear of holding a referendum, if that is a requirement. I have made this perfectly clear in my response to him. We must focus on the reality of the circumstances in which we find ourselves. The discussions that have taken place at both technical and ministerial level on financial matters will be concluded at the meeting of the Heads of Government. When the text has been finalised and signed, the Attorney General will provide formal legal advice. If required, a referendum will be held. If not, one will not be held. I hope that is perfectly clear.

When the Deputy refers to a right-wing, neoliberal regime, I am sure he appreciates that the same regime has been compliant in making available €110 billion to the covered banks in order that ATMs continue to operate and that the salaries of nurses, doctors, gardaí and other public servants, including everyone here, continue to be paid. If he possesses a magic wand which might allow us to wish away all our liabilities and have a brand new future without these liabilities, I would like to hear if he proposes to use it.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Government should not take on liabilities, the creation of which the people had nothing to do with.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is no such magic wand. There are challenges ahead and I absolutely respect the understanding of the people with which we are obliged to deal. They know that this problem will not go away or rectify itself. They also know that strong leadership is required, on the part of both the Government and the European Union, in order to bring the country back into line and turn the Union into the entity I know it can be in the future.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are seven minutes remaining. We will, therefore, have one round of supplementary questions - not statements - from Members.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is not the mark of a strong Government to challenge the weak. The mark of a strong Government is its willingness to challenge the strong and those with vested interests. The current system does not work for the majority of citizens. We need to merge or marry social and economic progress which we are not doing.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question, please.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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For example, the Minister for Finance is trying to renegotiate the cost of servicing the interest payment on the promissory note. A strong Government would state it was not paying the money involved because it could not afford to do so. It would inform the European Union, the banks and our partners-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy ask a question as we are running out of time?

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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-----that there was a need to work out an acceptable solution that was good for citizens and society and social progress and the economy. I recommend this approach to the Taoiseach and ask him to adopt it.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I certainly do not disagree with the concept of interaction between social and economic policy. If one gets matters right in this regard, it gives rise to opportunities to create jobs to get people back to work. On foot of his previous service in Northern Ireland, the Deputy will be aware of the importance of communities. I could bring him to many rural and urban areas in the Republic in which stout leadership and a willingness to avail of various supports, the services of entities, etc., have resulted in the development of really strong communities that focus on opportunities which suit local needs. In times of economic challenge these communities are more important than ever.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Government is cutting services in such communities.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Let us consider the prospects for Ireland. This morning the Government approved a consultation paper on the prospects of having an integrated marine policy. The group responsible for this paper is chaired by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Licence applications are being received in respect of major salmon aquaculture development projects which are worth in the region of €100 million and which could give rise to at least 300 jobs per unit. Such projects will be of enormous importance to the future of the economies of coastal regions and will give rise to the creation of jobs.

The streams for which the Ministers for Social Protection and Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation are responsible are absolutely critical to the future well-being of people whom the Deputy and everyone else present knows. We want to see imaginative and creative ways being utilised to take advantage of people's initiative and wish to contribute to their country. I do not like to see 450,000 people on the live register. I do not like to be told by individuals that they are obliged to stay home and watch daytime television. I do not like the fact that children are returning from school to homes in which no one has gone out to work that day. We have so much potential, but we must do this right. That is why the Government is now focused on more creative ways of producing this potential. The vast majority of people I meet want to work and want to contribute, but they expect somebody to ring the bell and say where the opportunity is. The marriage of social and economic policy is important for our people's confidence, well-being and contribution. We will focus on that over the next couple of weeks.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will take the next three speakers together. I call Deputy Ó Cuív for a supplementary question.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach referred to the attendance at the Council of Europe meetings. A detailed survey was done of those meetings when we were in the Government and we were the fifth best attenders at them.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can the Deputy put a question, please?

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I will put a question now, but it is important to correct the record. The Taoiseach spoke about the €100 billion being put into our banks. Would he not agree that what happened had nothing to do with a fiscal deficit in Ireland? In fact, we would have complied during the good years with all the new rules that are being brought in here. What happened is that banks in the centre of Europe, especially German banks, lent recklessly to the periphery. They are afraid they will not get their money back. In an effort to do so, they are more than willing to let the ECB lend to our banks so that our banks can give them back their own money.

Has the Government had discussions about sharing the burden equally? The periphery is lining up with the full cost of the banking policy. Has the Government pursued the issue at the heart of this problem to ensure that what happened cannot happen again? This is more of a banking crisis than a fiscal crisis.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, Deputy.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Has the Government succeeded in negotiating the sharing of the burden with the reckless lender as well as the reckless borrower?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The latest draft of the euro compact states that the austerity rules must be "of binding force and permanent character" and must be "guaranteed to be respected throughout the national budgetary processes". Permanent, binding austerity must be enforced by this Government or any future government. How can the Taoiseach say that that level of infringement on the right of democratically elected parliaments in Europe does not justify the people of this country and the people of Europe having a say on whether they want to give up that level of democratic oversight on their own affairs and their own future? Legal issues aside, how can anybody say that this level of incursion on democratic rights does not require a democratic referendum, so that the citizens can decide whether they want permanent austerity dictated from Brussels or Frankfurt?

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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What will the Taoiseach say at the summit about the ruinous promissory note covering the €30 billion that was channelled through Anglo Irish Bank to speculators? It will cost €47 billion with straight interest, but some say it will eventually cost €70 billion to €75 billion if this insanity is not changed. This is growing more urgent by the day.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thought that Deputy Ó Cuív would have maintained the high standing that he always purported to have for the party of which he is the deputy leader, and that they should be the best attenders.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Fifth place out of 27 is not bad.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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His party has been relegated to fifth. Some of the comments I heard might have put them further back, but perhaps that was not the final lap. The issue both he and Deputy Higgins have raised is under discussion at a technical level. The Minister for Finance has spoken to Commissioner Rehn and he will speak to Mr. Draghi about it later this evening. This arose from the comments we have been making here for a number of months, coming to a conclusion with discussions between the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, that the troika should prepare and present a paper on this issue. I expect the troika will do this and we will speak to each individual leader as we approach that. The issue for discussion on Monday is the treaty and the question of growth and jobs.

The issue of the €30 billion promissory note, to be paid over ten years, is crucial and it would be of enormous benefit to Ireland were an improvement to be made. Figures have been mentioned on this issue. The discussions will continue, although hopefully not for too long, but it is not for immediate decision now.

The draft that was finished last weekend is available at the moment, but it is important for Deputy Boyd Barrett to understand that Ireland is in a programme. As such, the programme supersedes the issues that are here. Our programme is due to be finished at the end of 2013. The Government hopes that Ireland can emerge from its programme by then and fly on its own independent economic wings. When we sign on for the rules, however, there must be adherence to those conditions. What went wrong in Europe for many years was that conditions were set out but not adhered to. The importance of the intergovernmental agreement before us is that if we sign on, we must adhere to the conditions. These conditions are in respect of fiscal discipline, better budgetary policy and better governance. The fact that this country is in a programme, challenging though it is, means it supersedes this particular draft until we finish it at the end of 2013, when hopefully we will no longer be in such a programme.