Dáil debates

Tuesday, 17 January 2012

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed)

Ministerial Staff

3:00 pm

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach the names of the special advisors employed in his Department and the salary and other entitlements available to each. [39470/11]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach the occasions on which he has intervened to secure the employment of special advisors in his or other Departments, on salaries in excess of the salary range guidelines for special advisors introduced by the Department of Finance; and the reasons in each case he intervened. [39471/11]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach the number of employees of Fine Gael currently employed as special advisors to the Government and their names, salaries and other entitlements. [39472/11]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, together.

Five special advisers are employed by my Department, four of whom are my special advisers and one of whom is special adviser to the Chief Whip.

Under the supervision of my chief of staff, the special advisers employed by my Department provide briefings and advice on a wide range of policy matters, as well as performing such other functions as I may direct from time to time. They also liaise with other special advisers in each Department so that I remain informed on developments across government.

The details requested on the names and salaries of the special advisers employed by my Department are set out in a table which I propose to circulate with the Official Report. None of the salaries has changed since the special advisers were appointed. Other entitlements such as annual leave, sick leave and pensions are in keeping with the guidelines set out by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

My Department provides office accommodation to three special advisers assigned to the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and one special adviser assigned to the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs.

Questions relating to the salaries of special advisers are a matter of responsibility for the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform.

As was the case with my predecessors, I am not accountable to the Dáil on the employment histories of my special advisers. Accountable issues on special advisers are defined in declarations to be made under the Ethics in Public Office Act. Declarations of current or previous membership of or association with a political party are not required. Regulations pertaining to civil servants and politics do not apply to special advisers, who are accountable to Ministers for their activities.

Name and GradeReports toAnnual Salary
Mark Kennelly, Chief of StaffTaoiseach€168,000
Andrew McDowell, Special AdviserTaoiseach€168,000
Paul O'Brien, Special AdviserTaoiseach€80,051
Angela Flanagan, Special AdviserTaoiseach€80,051
Mark O'Doherty, Special AdviserGovernment Chief Whip€80,051

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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With the Ceann Comhairle's leave, I would like a bit of time to tease out my three questions.

The Taoiseach ignored entirely Question No. 2 which asked how many times he had intervened to secure the employment of special advisers. I am also concerned he was not prepared to read the names of the special advisers in question into the record. The Taoiseach also cited that, like his predecessor, he is not accountable to the Dáil. That is probably the kindest thing he said about his predecessor in all my time here.

I put down these questions because people voted for change and we are living in times of great distress, constantly being told we are all in this together. Unfortunately, we are not all in this together. The workers from Diageo whom I met this morning in Dundalk after they were informed of losing their jobs, even after long service, are not in this with us. In a wonderful piece of news yesterday-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must remind the Deputy this is Question Time and not statements.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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This is all about trying to get information, and answers to questions.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is my job to get the Deputy to put the questions and it is the Taoiseach's job to answer them.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I will put them. There was an interesting scéal yesterday about an appointment of a special adviser by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine with a special salary of €130,000. At the time of his appointment, the Minister said the person "has a strong commitment to public service and is anxious to contribute at a national level in our drive towards recovery... he has a personal commitment to the country and is anxious to make a contribution by offering his knowledge and skills." He lasted five months and then left for England.

Sin an fhadhb atá ann. Conas gur féidir le saoránaigh creidmheáil sa daonlathas? How can people believe there is real change coming from the Government? How can people believe in the possibility of a real republic when the Taoiseach breaks his own rules by going against the salary bars set by him?

Will the Taoiseach inform the Dáil the number of occasions on which he intervened to secure the employment of special advisers in his or other Departments on salaries in excess of the salary range guidelines for special advisers?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not interfere or intervene in that process. Part of my responsibility is to sanction the appointments. Decisions on salaries for special advisers are a matter for the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. The employment history of any person appointed to a job as a special adviser is immaterial. It is not required under the Ethics in Public Office Act. Ministers decide on the basis of their requirements and the credentials of the person in question employed. They then seek sanction for that.

As Deputy Adams spoke of being in this together, the real republic, wanting answers to questions and needing information, it interests me that in the Northern Ireland Assembly, of which his party is involved, such appointments are not subject to freedom of information and that no information is forthcoming on salary scales of ministerial advisers. In the case of Sinn Féin, it is the party that appoints the adviser, not the Minister. That seems to be a peculiar arrangement applicable only in Northern Ireland. Deputy Adams comes into the Chamber with two different standards.

Photo of Ray ButlerRay Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Adams has three different standards.

Photo of Patrick O'DonovanPatrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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He is stonewalling now.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He points out he wants a real republic, answers and information, yet the party which he leads in Northern Ireland has a very different structure.

Change is indicative here by the fact the chief of staff appointed to the Taoiseach is on a salary of €168,000. In 2009, the special adviser to the then Taoiseach was on €221,929. The total cost in 2011 of the special advisers to whom I have referred, which will be circulated to the Deputy, was €576,000. In December 2009, it was €1.085 million. If he wants to be upfront about this, perhaps he might look at his own party first.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Taoiseach for that advice but I would like to get back to the question. He said that he has not intervened or interfered. Let me not put words in his mouth and let him be clear to us. I refer to the preciseness of his reply to Question No. 2. He said he has not intervened to secure the employment of special advisers in his or other Departments and salaries in excess of the salary range guidelines for special advisers. Would he like some mature reflection on that?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not set the salaries-----

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I did not ask that.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy talked about intervening or interfering.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I did not use the word "interfere".

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Part of my responsibility-----

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach has it in writing.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----is to sanction the appointments.

The questions refers to "the occasions on which he has intervened to secure the employment of special advisers in his or other Departments on salaries in excess of the salary range guidelines for special advisors introduced by the Department of Finance and the reasons in each case he intervened". The e-mail that has been bandied about and referred to was sent from my office in regard to the sanction of the appointment of a special adviser to a Minister. The level of salary for that individual was not decided on my determination but in agreement with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. It was in breach of the guidelines and I have answered questions about why sanction was sought for that.

My job in respect of this element of my work is to sanction the appointments of the special advisers. I have pointed out to the Deputy that the cost of the advisers I have referred to, which will be circulated to him, is almost €500,000 less than during the previous Government.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach has intervened. Now that he has given us the accurate, truthful answer to the question, why did he intervene?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The individual involved had worked in the Department without pay for quite a number of months. I felt it time that a decision should be made about his position being sanctioned.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Was he a member of Fine Gael?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is quite immaterial. For instance, the Deputy's party made a controversial appointment to the culture Minister in Northern Ireland. Was that person a member of Sinn Féin? The answer is "Yes".

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Yes.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Was the special adviser I referred to a member of Fine Gael previously? The answer is "Yes". He worked in a diligent fashion for Fine Gael in an important position for eight to nine years.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I believe in the importance of external advice to Ministers and to the Taoiseach. I do not see anything wrong with that. It is a valued part of how modern government should work and it needs constant reflection and so on. I am, therefore, not against it.

However, the problem is the Taoiseach's presentation of this issue is "Do as I say, not as I do". The controversy is showing that the Government says one thing in public but does a completely different thing in practice.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we have a supplementary question, not more statements?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Taoiseach agree with the proposition that when the guidelines and salaries are broken for eight out of 15 Departments, this is a public relations exercise? I understand the argument about people coming from a highly competitive jobs market and one's desire to get some people in speciality areas in to advise government. However, that argument is disingenuous in the context of some of the interventions by the Government. I have no difficulty with a party member coming in in an advisory capacity. Was the Taoiseach worried that Fine Gael was paying too much to the individual and the Government would not be in a position to attract him to the job or did he believe that the party would try to hold on to him to prevent him being recruited? This is about his commitment and not about comparing numbers. He promised that things would be different but eight out of 15 salaries are in breach of the guidelines. Does he agree it is a public relations exercise?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No, it is not a public relations exercise. The Deputy was either the victim or the beneficiary over the years of having specialist advice made available to him in the many Ministries in which he served.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I never went beyond the guidelines.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Between 2009 and 2011 there was a reduction of almost €500,000 in the cost of special advisers and in the numbers eligible to be recruited to both Ministers and Ministers of State. I pointed out previously that the guidelines allow for a breach of the conditions in specific circumstances and they were outlined in the case to which Deputy Adams referred.

As Deputy Martin will be well aware, special advisers work on a 24-hour basis and they have to be available in respect of dealing with whatever responsibilities the Minister has in the Department. They are on call on a 24-hour basis as needs be. It is not a normal job and it demands enormous energy and commitment and an understanding of the responsibilities of Minister and the entire Government when it meets collectively in respect of their duties.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach was so understanding of that position when he sat over here.