Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for taking this matter. Since the budget, people on community employment, CE, schemes have been terrified that their schemes will end. A total of 22,500 people around the country are carrying out valuable work for our communities and they are fearful about what may happen to them. My constituency has schemes such as the Darndale Belcamp Village Centre, Kilbarrack Coast Community Programme and Howth Sutton Community Council. The groups of companies I am most familiar with, because I have been a director of them for more than 25 years, are the Northside Centre for the Unemployed, the Glin Centre, Coolock and Coolock Development Council, which is on a community campus on Bunratty Drive. If the cut of €1,000 per worker for training and materials goes ahead, we will lose €120,000. It will be devastating and it will be a disaster for these groups of companies. The money has primarily been used for progression-based training courses in the past, including construction, welding, elder care, child care, landscaping, food and hygiene, occupational first aid, ECDL, office skills and so on going up to FETAC level 5. It will be disastrous for our training programmes if the Minister's review does not reconsider this cut urgently.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The announcement has caused consternation among CE participants, supervisors and those who avail of their services. I do not know how the Minister will be able to stand over this but she stated in a recent letter that: "In the event that the reduction in the training and materials grant announced in the budget creates financial difficulties for schemes that would otherwise be viable, my Department will be in a position to fund such schemes from within the overall Department budget." That is welcome but it exposes how ridiculous it is to go ahead with cut in the grant. The letter also claimed no CE scheme would close pending the outcome of the review.

These schemes are valuable, especially in areas of severe disadvantage, because they provide services the State should provide. Many of them survive on a month to month basis and they need to plan the roll-out of the training aspect of the programme. They must plan in advance and if they are unsure of funding, they must go with a begging bowl to the Department and hope the Minister will listen. The announcement is disastrous. The Minister understands some of the schemes because, for instance, she attended the Liberties recycling training and development scheme and presented the FETAC awards.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Cutbacks totalling €41.5 million in the CE programme will impact on services throughout the country and act as an impediment to long-term unemployed people looking to upskill and re-enter the workforce. The budget contained measures that will reduce the training and materials grant from €1,500 to €500 per participant per annum. These schemes include prominent community programmes such as crèches, community and family resource centres, elderly and disabled supports, sporting, social and cultural clubs, Tidy Towns, etc. There are 23,000 places on the schemes, which are sponsored by voluntary boards of management, with running costs covered by the materials and training budget. The cut means that sponsoring a scheme may no longer be variable.

The Taoiseach in reply to me yesterday said the Minister's review will not slow down the legislation relating to the budget, which will give effect to the 66% cut in the training and material grant for the schemes. Why did she not engage with the sector? Why did she not inform the schemes of a review before the budget, which cut their grant by 66%? How can scheme administrators prepare work plans for next year knowing such a grant cut will leave them in no position to prepare or cost a plan, let alone implement it? When will the review take place? Who will carry it out? What are the terms of reference it will adhere to? How long will the review take? If the costs associated with the schemes are cut by €41.5 million and the Minister says they will all survive, where will the funding come from within her budget to fund the schemes that are not viable? Is the cut in her budget, therefore, €420 million rather than €475 million? Will she clarify how much her Department's funding was cut by in the budget?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The employment services division of FÁS will join the Department of Social Protection on 1 January 2012. This division has responsibility for CE schemes. This means the operational budget for CE schemes will become the responsibility of my Department. The division has 700 staff and it is also responsible for the local employment service. As part of its integration into the Department of Social Protection, I have directed that a review of CE schemes commence immediately. The purpose of the review is to establish the ongoing viability of each scheme in the context of the overall objectives of the CE programme and recognising, in particular, the community and social value of each scheme and the value to the participant in helping them back to work. It would be odd if a review was not carried on a division of this size with responsibility for so many schemes. No scheme will close pending the outcome of this review.

Due to the current economic circumstances and the need for the Department to find savings of €475 million in the budget, it is necessary to examine all aspects of expenditure of my Department. We are planning savings of €27.5 million, which represents a reduction of 7.5% in the 2011 CE budget of €360 million. The Department will spend €960 million on employment supports, including CE schemes, in 2012. Thankfully, that is up from €882 million in 2011. There is actually a very significant increase in a time of cutbacks in the overall budget for employment supports.

Community employment schemes provide a very important and valued contribution to social employment, training and progression for jobseekers. Furthermore, many community employment schemes provide vital community services right across the country.

This budget has had jobs at its centre. While CE provides an excellent service for the community in many cases, and provides a level of work for employed persons, it does not have high progression rates into further education, training or, indeed, a job. Many schemes do; some schemes do not. That is the fact. We need to ensure that people who go on CE schemes have a better chance at the end of the process of returning to work, and we are beginning that process with budget 2012.

With regard to the training element of community employment, the national training fund will provide €4.2 million for training on CE in 2012. In addition, SOLAS will continue to provide access to its training programmes for CE participants. It also has an additional €20 million activation fund. The need for training on community employment varies depending on the needs of participants, how long they have already been on the scheme and the training already received.

I want to mention two reviews-----

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister will have to conclude as we are pressed for time.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I want to mention the two reviews of community employment carried out recently, first, the Forfás review and, second, the ESRI review. Both said that, for quite a number of community employment participants, there is only a 1% to 3% chance of actually getting a job after they have participated. That is a very worrying outcome.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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My experience is the opposite of the Minister's and I believe there is a fair amount of progression. The Minister rightly emphasised labour activation. Some of the courses people take cost anything from €500 to €800. All of that training is gone, which seems a very retrograde step if the Minister is serious about progression. Why did the Minister go ahead with the cuts without carrying out the review first? Why not talk to the people who know best, those represented by the three Deputies present, and then decide what to do in regard to funding?

I notice some key training we give people who work for us in our companies is mandatory, for example, health and safety training. How are we going to do that if there is no funding?

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Minister not understand that the review of the schemes after the fact is illogical and too late? The Minister should reinstate the training and materials grant and carry out the review. Although I believe these schemes have been over-evaluated over the years, if that review is carried out, the Minister will find very few of them are not complying with their mission statements. In fact, most will show a degree of progression, which is often not reflected, particularly those schemes involved in special community employment, such as drugs rehabilitative schemes, which show a tremendous amount of progression.

I referred earlier to Liberties Recycling, which must carry out safe pass as well as health and safety training. This means the training budget is altogether gone. Over and above that, last year every single one of the participants reached FETAC level and the same applies on other schemes.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry to say the response does not make the situation any better than it was before we started. The review is a smokescreen. It appears the Minister has no authority from Cabinet to rescind the cut that is proposed by the Minister, Deputy Howlin, to reduce the budget by €41.5 million. The Minister, Deputy Burton, said she would be able to achieve savings of €27.5 million so, even in the best case scenario, there is a €15 million gap. She talked about activation measures of €20 million. Will she be announcing separate activation measures from within SOLAS in addition to all other activation measures that currently exist within her Department?

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The community employment schemes and the operational budget both come into the Department of Social Protection on 1 January. The Department has not been in charge of community employment scheme operations through FÁS and will not be until FÁS staff come into the Department in the new year. People should understand that the key change arises from that fact and from the fact of the difficulties in the FÁS organisation that have resulted in the changes to FÁS, whereby the labour services side comes into the Department of Social Protection and the training and further education side goes into SOLAS and the Department of Education and Skills.

I have much personal experience of community employment and I recognise everything the Deputies have said about its value. I was out in Coolock the other night, talking to people in this regard, as I am sure Deputy Broughan knows. If we are honest, we have to say that not every community employment scheme has the same positive outcomes for the people who participate.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister must conclude as the time is up.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Deputy Cowen referred to people on FETAC courses and I visited the community employment scheme in Bluebell to which Deputy Ó Snodaigh referred. I am very confident that good community employment schemes with quality services and quality outcomes for participants will benefit from the review. The key point is the outcome for people as well as the services to the community and value for money. We will have very good progress in each of those areas.