Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I appreciate the flexibility offered by the Chair because this is a serious issue.

I do not know when the Minister, Deputy Quinn, last visited a DEIS school, or whether he did so recently. The work DEIS schools do in disadvantaged communities is very obvious. I know this at first hand because I have two children who attend schools within DEIS areas. I know the kind of work the schools do, the time teachers spend with students, the ability of teachers to build up students' confidence and ability, how they teach them to read and write, and all the other practical measures involved. The schools play a vital role not only in children's education, but in the greater scheme of things in the community. They help hold together the social fabric and they have been very successful.

I spent the weekend speaking to a number of school principals who were really angry and bewildered by the decision of the Minister in respect of pupil-teacher ratios in DEIS schools. This will have a significant impact not only on the educational needs of the children. Many of the children in question come from very disadvantaged backgrounds. Many have behavioural issues. There is a scheme in place in DEIS schools in regard to school attendance records concerning which I spoke to one principal. In the past five years an additional 1,500 days have been supplied to pupils as a result of the work and extra support put in by the schools. Withdrawing staff will have an enormous effect.

I am trying to get a grip on how many teacher posts will be lost in Cork North-Central. The figures are coming in bit by bit as we talk to the schools. In the 12 schools I spoke with so far, 41 staff will be lost. That is a huge number not only for the staff, but for the children within the schools and in regard to the additional supports the schools provide to the communities.

I heard the budget announcements and looked at the front page of the Minister's website. It is my habit to look at all departmental websites. They say a lot about the Departments.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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This is a limited debate.

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I know it is limited but it is an important issue and the Chair stated there would be flexibility. I shall finish.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I agree it is important.

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister's website states he prioritised front line services in the recent budget. I do not believe that. This measure does not prioritise those services - rather it decimates them and does so in our most disadvantaged communities. This must be reversed.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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In the course of the budget debate the Government claimed no changes had been made to the pupil-teacher ratio at primary or secondary school levels. Of course, that is not true. My colleague has set out in very real terms the kind of devastation which will be caused by the withdrawal of what I calculate to be approximately 400 posts. Perhaps the Minister will give the exact figure today. That will be a devastating blow to schools, children and communities and will damage not only children's education, but their social and life opportunities.

I note when the Minister deals with this matter it is referred to as a "legacy" issue. He knows as well as I do that in the communities where DEIS schools are located there are legacies of poverty, need and underachievement in education. Previously, a Labour Party Government vowed to break the cycle and give every child the chance he or she deserves. These actions will undo very much of that work. It is ironic that one Labour Party Minister would sabotage the good work of a previous Labour Party Minister.

At some stage today the Minister met with a group of teachers from the north inner city of Dublin. I am sure they set out for him in concrete terms what it means in a school to lose three, four, five or, in some cases, as many as eight teachers, and how damaging this will be for the children concerned. I am very sure they told the Minister he must stop these cuts. I take this opportunity again to ask the Minister to stop these cuts which will do untold damage. If his Administration claims to have a commitment to education, early childhood intervention, equality of opportunity and the protection not only of children's education, but of their life chances, the Minister has no option other than to stop these cuts.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to reinforce what the other Deputies stated. This is an attack on disadvantaged areas. For many years we made enormous strides in trying to provide education and give people hope and opportunity in areas of disadvantage. The DEIS programme, Breaking the Cycle and Even Breaks were put in place by successive Governments and supported with the necessary resources.

I sat on the Minister's side of the House and defended unpopular decisions but this cut will have devastating impacts in areas of disadvantage not only for the individuals concerned, but collectively within those communities. I urge the Minister to reconsider. As Deputy O' Brien pointed out, more than 40 teachers will be lost on the north side of Cork city, an already disadvantaged area. That is the equivalent of closing three schools in the area.

I ask the Minister to step back and look at the areas supported by the DEIS programme, Breaking the Cycle and Even Breaks and see if he can come up with any imaginative solutions. If we look at the budget we can see that some schools are getting extra allocations without being in areas of disadvantage. They are increasing their teacher numbers while elsewhere there are areas that have had legacy issues for many years. These are unemployment, neglect by the State, local authorities and society at large. There is one opportunity to give people a break.

I offer an interesting figure. Seven per cent of the people who attend these schools on the north side of Cork go on to third level education. That is a move in the right direction but it is only 7%. This is not about third level fees and does not involve any grand debate in the broader sense. This is about the nuts and bolts of people being able to read or write. I urge the Minister to look at the area of disadvantage, Breaking the Cycle and the DEIS programmes.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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I concur with my fellow Deputies in asking the Minister to reconsider this very cruel cut to rural and urban disadvantaged schools. If we look at the recent budget a clear trend was that families who are lower paid or on social welfare got hit and hurt more badly and in a more blatant way than people on high pay. It is the same with the education cuts. The headline that emerged from the budget was that there would be no change to teacher-pupil ratios. However, when we delve down into this issue we see there are changes to those ratios and they are taking place in the most disadvantaged schools which most need support.

I offer the Minister two examples of the many schools that will be affected in County Donegal when this cut takes place after next September. Glengad national school currently has five teachers but this measure will bring the number down to three. In Carndonagh girls' national school there are currently nine teachers but this cut will bring the number down to seven and probably to six the following year. These types of cuts are unsustainable but in one fell swoop this is what will be experienced.

Last week, the Government wisely rowed back on the cut to disability benefit, recognising it was the wrong thing to do. Likewise this cut is the wrong thing to do. It is totally unfair for those families, in particular the children, to be hit by reductions in teacher numbers next September. I urge the Minister to withdraw this decision and change his mind.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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A key priority for my Department is to continue to prioritise and target funding at schools with the most concentrated levels of educational disadvantage. However, in order to ensure fairness in the distribution of resources available under the DEIS plan, it is no longer possible to allow some schools to retain legacy posts on a concessionary basis that pre-date the introduction of the DEIS scheme. Accordingly, a decision has been taken to withdraw 428 posts from earlier disadvantage programmes in 270 primary schools and 163 post-primary schools that exceed what equivalent schools are entitled to under DEIS or to which non-DEIS schools are not entitled.

The following are some important elements to this measure which should address some of the concerns raised about the schools in question. My Department will hold several teaching posts in reserve to reduce the impact of changes to schools most acutely affected. All schools will be notified in January 2012 of their staffing entitlements under the new arrangement including any alleviation measures that may apply.

The majority of DEIS band 1 schools will benefit from the new dedicated pupil teacher ratio of 22:1. The new staffing schedule for DEIS band 1 primary schools now gives greater autonomy to schools and simplifies the existing system whereby schools are given a top-up allocation to support lower class sizes of 20:1 in junior classes and 24:1 in senior classes.

DEIS post-primary schools will be targeted for additional support through an improved staffing schedule of 18.25:1, which is a 0.75 point improvement compared to the existing standard, 19:1, that applies in post-primary schools that do not charge fees or compared to the 21:1 ratio that will apply in fee-charging schools.

Phasing out of the legacy posts will commence in the 2012-13 school year. The phasing of this measure will allow schools time to prepare for this gradual change. In the meantime, the new pupil teacher ratio of 22:1 will take effect from September 2012 for all DEIS band 1 schools.

In addition, the changes announced to the general allocation model and the way in which resource teachers are allocated to all 3,200 primary schools will take effect from next September. My Department will, by necessity, carefully examine each DEIS school's staffing arrangements on a case-by-case basis to ensure the impact of changes will be minimised as much as possible.

The Government's protection of schools serving disadvantaged areas is further underlined by the maintenance of €13 million in enhanced funding for DEIS schools, €2 million in school book funding for DEIS schools, as well as a €26 million investment in the home school community liaison scheme. All these areas have been protected from reductions in expenditure for 2012. The school completion programme, which transferred to the Department of Children and Youth Affairs earlier this year, remains a major component of DEIS and has seen only a marginal deduction of €2 million in its overall budget equating to approximately 6.5%.

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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How can the Minister claim the change in pupil-teacher ratios will benefit some schools? It beggars belief. I asked him when was the last time he visited one of these schools. Deputy Kelleher pointed out how currently 7% of school leavers in the north side of Cork city go on to third level education. Before these schemes were introduced 20 years ago, that figure was only 1%. We will be heading back to that 1% if these cuts go ahead. These cuts cannot proceed. This is not about money but about people's opportunity to further their education, better themselves and get a real job. These schemes are vital to that. If these are withdrawn, it is those children who could benefit who will be worse off.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I take it from the Minister's response that he is not going to change his mind on these cuts. To suggest that withdrawing 420 posts would enhance a child's educational opportunity is utterly perverse. The Minister described this as a legacy issue. What will the Minister's legacy be? It will be that he dismantled the invaluable work done in communities with DEIS schools.

The Minister may not be for changing his mind now but he should be on notice that in the communities and constituencies in which these schools will be hammered by him, he will face a battle not just from the teachers but from the parents and community at large.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It baffles me that he will persist with these cuts. He does not need anyone on this side of the House to tell him just how damaging this decision will prove.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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In the foreword to the national literacy and numeracy strategy, the Minister stated his aspiration is to achieve world-class literacy and numeracy skills among our children and young people. If the Minister does not reverse these cuts in disadvantaged areas, he will consign that aspiration to the bin and might as well tear up the strategy.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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One teacher in a school in my area told me that since DEIS was introduced the school's standardised test results in numeracy and literacy have improved. Her students have flourished emotionally, socially and academically, attendance has vastly improved and parents are very much involved in their children's education. The Minister, through these cuts, will remove 428 teachers from the system. It is a crude cut attacking the most vulnerable students. The Minister should row back on this. The Minister will know what is coming to him when these cuts feed through to the different schools. Parents and children will be hurt by these cuts. It is crucial the Minister goes back to the drawing board, looks again at this and changes his mind.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I thank the Deputies for their contributions. I have visited DEIS band 1 and band 2 schools. There are some in my constituency which is an inner city one and not just all Dublin 4. There have been inequalities between various DEIS schools with some getting fewer resources than others that were previously identified as having a disadvantage and subsequently re-branded as DEIS schools. The question is about the equal treatment of pupils in those categories.

I accept there are areas of compounded social disadvantage where conditions outside the school affect the classroom. I think of some of the schools in my inner city constituency. These measures will be introduced over time and their impact reviewed. An equalisation will be in place as to how they will be implemented. The schools affected will be negotiated with on these measures much earlier than was previously the case.

At the end of the day, we must realise we are not in control of our economic destiny.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Please, Minister.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I know Deputy McDonald does not like it.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It really does not apply to this issue.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister is hitting the most vulnerable.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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No, we are not. We are trying to be as fair as possible on this.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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This is not fair and the Minister knows that.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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It is. The fairest way to start is to ensure disadvantage is treated equally.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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To wreck Dublin inner city more like.

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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More like making sure they are all disadvantaged equally.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Order, please.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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It has not been the case that disadvantage was treated equally. Former Ministers attempted to equalise the allocation of scarce resources but it was not done because of the sorts of arguments made now.

I will examine carefully how these measures are implemented. I will discuss with the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, how we can combine the home school liaison and school completion programmes. Teachers have informed me that many of the problems they face originate outside the classroom. The solution is not necessarily more teachers but much more home support-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The solution is not taking teachers away.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy, please.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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-----of the kind to which I have referred. That is how we will deal with this.