Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Question 4: To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform his views on persons in State and semi State employment who are earning more than €250,000 per annum; and if he will introduce legislation under the Financial Emergency Measures Acts to eliminate this practice including current recipients. [35351/11]

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Government supports a strong policy of pay restraint within the public sector. This is evidenced by the fact that immediately on assumption of office - on the night of their appointment - the Taoiseach, other members of the Government and a number of other office-holders voluntarily reduced their salary rates. In addition, I immediately began the process of considering whether it would be appropriate to impose general pay ceilings across the public service and in respect of chief executive officer posts in commercial semi-State companies where remuneration is subject to ministerial sanction. This process culminated in the Government's decision of June last to introduce a general pay ceiling of €200,000 for future appointments to higher positions across the public service, and a general pay ceiling of €250,000 for future appointments to CEO posts within commercial State companies.

With regard to those office-holders whose pay rates are established in primary legislation and the Judiciary, and in light of the outcome of the recent referendum on the 29th amendment to the Constitution, new statutory provisions for the remuneration of judges, together with the necessary provisions to give legislative effect to the voluntary pay reductions for the Taoiseach and other office-holders, will be provided through a single dedicated enactment to be published shortly. The Deputy will recall that I made such a provision in the Public Service Pensions (Single Scheme) and Remuneration Bill that we passed. I will now take it out of that Act and present it to the Dáil, I hope, for early enactment as a stand-alone Bill.

Having given detailed consideration to the legal advice provided on potential legal and contractual issues arising from the imposition of an immediate reduction in the salaries of current incumbents whose salaries are in excess of the proposed ceilings, the Government concluded that the ceilings should apply only to new appointments to the relevant positions. In introducing general pay ceilings for new appointees, the Government recognised, however, that in a small number of cases exceptions may be necessary. Any such exceptions are subject to my prior approval as Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. While no such exceptions have been made to date, the introduction of legislation imposing a statutory pay ceiling of €250,000 would limit the scope of the Government and Ministers to respond quickly to exceptional circumstances involving a role of substantial importance in the public service or a commercial semi-State sector. It is my view - I have considered this from the point of view of equity - that it is not practical to do what the Deputy suggests, although I would be minded to do so.

I am aware that, notwithstanding recent initiatives by the Government, there remains a small number of individuals - 18 - who are in receipt of remuneration in excess of €250,000 and whose remuneration is subject to ministerial sanction. In addition, certain academic consultants at professorial level in the health and education sector are in receipt of remuneration of more than €250,000 per annum. There are no persons in either the Civil Service or local authorities with salaries above €200,000.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the last point and I accept there is nobody earning more than €200,000 in the Civil Service or local authorities. The Minister mentioned that 18 people were receiving remuneration of more than €250,000. He might tell us the categories of people and the agencies involved. He went on to mention some academics and medics. Are they in addition to the 18 people mentioned first? He might clarify that.

What prompted my question is the fact - I do not wish to personalise this - that the chief executives of the ESB and the Dublin Airport Authority, along with hospital consultants, were not included in the previous arrangement, and we were told that they would be dealt with at an early stage. That was last July, but there is no sign of this happening. I would add to this the senior people at AIB, which is a completely State-owned company - I would not even call it a commercial semi-State, although it is a semi-State of some description - and those in the National Treasury Management Agency. The Minister has unanimous support in this House to deal with this issue. He would have unanimous support from the people of Ireland also. Let one or two of them go to court if they are so minded; I think the Minister would have the support even of the Judiciary if it came to that. That is why I mentioned legislation in my question. This might have to be done under the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act or some similar mechanism to give a legal backing to the measures taken. I would support the Minister if he did all this.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I do not think the Deputy and I have any difference of opinion on this. It is a question of how we do it rather than what we do. Of the 18 individuals I mentioned, one is a Member of the Oireachtas. That confused me when I saw it; it is, of course, the President, who is a House of the Oireachtas in and of himself. I should tell the House that the President has indicated to my Department that he wishes to undertake a voluntary pay reduction, and that has been put in place.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Does that include his pension as a former Minister?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will answer that separately. I do not want to get into a discussion on the President, but the Deputy can be assured that the highest probity will attach itself to all his actions.

Of the other members of the group of 18 I mentioned, seven are CEOs of commercial semi-State bodies, all of whom have taken a reduction, although their salaries are still over €250,000. The Deputy will recall the process I outlined. I did not want simply to have a flat rate. I took some stick when I said I did not want the CEO of Bord na gCon paid the same as the CEO of the ESB; there should be differences. A process was undertaken by the previous Government called the Hay evaluation, which ranked pay grades in proportionate terms, and I have reduced these accordingly.

Of the rest of the 18, one is the CEO of a non-commercial semi-State body, and the rest are the Chief Justice, the President of the High Court and the Supreme Court judges.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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What about the NTMA people?