Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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Question 5: To ask the Minister for Education and Skills the resources he envisages that are needed for his proposed reform of the junior certificate; his views that there is a need for the training of teachers; and the rationale behind his decision regarding history and geography not being compulsory. [35221/11]

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Teachers will be supported in implementing junior cycle reform through the professional development service for teachers, focusing on the syllabus changes, assessment and school moderation. The assessment and consideration of the resource implications of the proposals have begun. These will, of course, fall to be considered in the normal way by Government in the context of the Estimates and budgetary processes.

I have made no decision on the issue of history and geography being compulsory. These skills are required of all students under the 24 statements of learning recommended by the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment. Overall, I am in favour of leaving the decisions on what is offered at the discretion of the school - as a teacher, Deputy O'Sullivan might welcome that sentiment - and of students having as broad a range of options to choose from as possible. Curriculum choice is important in motivating students to learn and to remain in school to completion of senior cycle. It is also important to avoid an erosion of the practical subjects. The issue will be taken forward in discussions with the partners in education.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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Teachers have always shown they are very receptive to innovation and inventiveness because they have embraced quite a number of changes in syllabi over the years. Education is about creating a well rounded individual who has the transferable skills about which we speak. I am always alarmed when I hear a particular section in society say that education must respond to X. I dislike the idea that education can be corralled into a very narrow framework.

I was delighted by what the Minister said about history and geography. History was one of my subjects and it is a very important one which perhaps should be compulsory along with geography. History is more than just learning facts, which is a very small part of it. It is about examining evidence and looking at bias, distortion and at the media. It is very important that young people learn to look at the media and how they can manipulate particular situations. It is also about creative thinking. Literacy and numeracy both come into subjects such as history and geography and I welcome what the Minister said. I would be delighted if the Minister did not make the decision that they would not be compulsory. Did he have discussions with the History Teachers' Association of Ireland, the Association of Geography Teachers of Ireland or any of the relevant professors?

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I do not know why there is such concern in the history and geography teaching communities about a fall-off in the study of their subjects. The take-up in the junior certificate examination this year was 90.2% for history and 91.5% for geography, making them the fifth and fourth most popular subjects respectively. While in the leaving certificate the percentages differ due to a wider range of subject choice, they were ninth and fifth respectively in popularity.

History is far more than just the recitation of facts. The analytical understanding why certain events occurred is a critical competent of the subject and is embedded in some of the skills we want to see emerge in the junior cycle reforms. As we are entering into discussions with the education partners, I would be quite happy to meet with various stakeholders including the two associations of subject teachers to which Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan referred.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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The leaving certificate applied course has been successful, part of which was due to the resources that went into it, the support for teachers, assessments and their monitoring. These factors need to be borne in mind if we are going down that road with the junior certificate.

If a reformed junior certificate is introduced in 2014, will it be part of the curriculum training for the next intake of higher diploma in education, HDip, students?

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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The courses offered at the teacher training colleges will go from three to four years while the HDip offered in other education institutions will be extended from a one-year course to a two-year course. The concentration of the extra time and resources will be on pedagogic skills. As the Deputy can testify, and from all the advice I have received, a good teacher is a good deliverer of good outcomes. We must reinforce the good teacher.