Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 3: To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if reports that he intends to reduce significantly the number of teachers are correct; if so the number of same; if an impact assessment has been done at secondary level in relation to loss of subjects; the way that these will impact on the strategy for a knowledge economy; the maximum class size will be at primary level; if an impact assessment has been carried out in respect of the delivery of the curriculum; the way these changes will affect children with special needs; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34885/11]

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 4: To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if he will commit to no further increases in class sizes for the 2012/2013 school year; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35174/11]

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 and 4 together.

I do not propose to give any specific commitment on the overall number of teaching posts in the education sector or on any changes to the pupil-teacher ratio and the impact it could have. These are issues that I am considering with my colleagues in Cabinet in the context of the forthcoming budget discussions and meeting our obligations under the EU-IMF programme. This is all the more challenging in the context of significant increases in demographics.

The Government will endeavour to protect front-line education services as best as possible. However, this must be done within the context of bringing our overall public expenditure back into line with what we can afford as a country. The challenge will be to ensure the resources that are provided to schools are used by them to maximum effect in terms of providing an appropriate range of subjects to meet the needs of our knowledge economy and in delivering the best possible outcomes for all our pupils.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is a disappointing response. I asked the question because there is a lot of information out there which may well be misinformation or kite flying, but there are considerable concerns about the plan of action for our education system. If the Minister reduces teacher numbers at second level, there could be a reduction in subject choices. We talk about having a knowledge economy. For example, physics and music are key subjects because one draws out different abilities.

In regard to primary school class sizes, classes are very different from what they were even 15 years ago. There is a much more mixed arrangement in that children with special needs are, by and large, in mainstream classes. There are lots of children without languages skills. The difficulty is that when people see education reform, they see it as code for cuts rather than reform of the system to deliver measurable outcomes in terms of the money we put in.

In the absence of information, it is very difficult to ask a supplementary question. I imagine we will get some of that information tomorrow when we see the programme to be outlined by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform in regard to public service reform.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy has been in the House for many years and she knows that asking a specific budgetary question three weeks from budget day is like trying to ask about the outcome of a football match before the game is over. It is still on. The Deputy will get all the answers to all the questions in due course but I need time to discuss them first with my Cabinet colleagues.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

As the Minister said, the game is on and we wish him every success that he will have a good result in his Estimates. We all appreciate it is not easy as there are competing demands. Fine Gael and the Labour Party quite rightly included in their programme for Government a pledge to protect front-line services in education, which we all welcome.

The first debate on education in this Dáil was a Private Members' motion which I tabled on behalf of Fianna Fáil that called on the Government to prioritise spending on education. The Minister very magnanimously accepted that motion, as did all parties in this House. I assume he got Government approval to accept that Private Members' motion and I hope he will be able to convince his colleagues to prioritise front-line services in education.

This report appeared recently and I am not saying what union members said to me but what teachers at primary and second levels said to me. They said that too often in the past, pupils were literally lost in large classes and they fear any deterioration in the pupil-teacher ratio. There has been an improvement and, naturally, we want to see it further improved. In 1997, the ratio was 22:1 while in 2010, it was down to 16:1. All of us want to see that improved. Any deterioration would be a huge set back for the education system. I emphasise that teachers at primary and second levels are very concerned should there be any deterioration in the pupil-teacher ratio and increase in class sizes.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I share the concern of the Deputy and I am endeavouring to do the best I can in regard to these matters. However, as a former Minister, the Deputy will know that in Departments such as the Department of Health or the Department of Education and Skills, in particular, 80% of the budget is centred around salaries and related costs. Therefore, the room for manoeuvre is confined to that 20% which affects the rest of the activities of the Department of Education and Skills. In the context of the Croke Park agreement that means very difficult decisions must be made.