Dáil debates

Tuesday, 11 October 2011

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed)

Commemorative Events

4:00 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach the position regarding preparations for the commemoration of the 1916 Rising. [24725/11]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach the preparations that have been made regarding the commemoration of the 1916 rising. [26091/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach the position regarding preparations for the commemoration of the centenary of the 1916 Rising. [28457/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach if he intends making any changes to the annual State commemorations of the 1916 Rising. [28458/11]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 to 10, inclusive, together.

I am very conscious of the enduring significance of the historic events of the early 20th century that culminated in the establishment of the State. Commemorative initiatives should seek to generate an enhanced understanding by the generations of today and the future of these important events in our national history. The official commemorative programme will be organised on a consultative and inclusive basis, contributing towards improved understanding and acceptance by all traditions.

Mindful of the fundamental importance of the centenary anniversaries to arise in the coming years, I envisage a comprehensive programme that will not only commemorate these events sequentially, but also seek to explore the issues thematically, presenting them anew to modern generations. An appreciation of the economic, social and cultural life of the Irish people in the years before the Easter Rising is essential to an informed understanding of the political and military history.

My Department is engaged in a programme that will include all other Departments, agencies and services in preparing a framework for commemorations. In addition to this official consideration, I envisage that the commemorative initiative will include an opportunity for all interested persons and groups to make proposals and submissions. I would like the commemorative programme to comprise not only the official initiatives, but also regional, local and community activities relating to persons, themes and events of relevance. Complementary efforts by national associations and cultural and sporting organisations will also be welcome.

Arrangements are also in place for a special consultation with parties in the Oireachtas on the draft programme. As the Deputies are aware, I have asked the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Deenihan, to chair an Oireachtas consultation group in respect of these centenary commemorations. I am grateful for the nominations received from party leaders and groups in this regard. The consultation group now includes Senator Mary White of the Fianna Fáil Party, Senator Mark Daly of the Fianna Fáil Party, Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Senator Kathryn Reilly of Sinn Féin and Deputes Catherine Murphy and Maureen O'Sullivan from the Independent group. I understand that this consultation group met in July and will meet again shortly.

With regard to the specific inquiry about current arrangements, the Easter Rising is commemorated annually at the GPO in Dublin. The annual parade by the Defence Forces, in abeyance since the 1970s, was re-instated in 2006. In subsequent years, there has been a military ceremony taking place in front of the General Post Office on O'Connell Street. There are no current proposals to amend these annual arrangements, although I expect that special arrangements will be made for the centenary anniversary in 2016.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his comprehensive reply. I welcome the sentiments he expressed and I look forward to working with him and the Government on ensuring a comprehensive programme of commemoration to open up genuine shared understanding of the different traditions on the island.

Does the Taoiseach agree that the commemoration of the 90th anniversary of the 1916 Rising showed considerable public support for commemorating the event that directly sparked the achievement of independence by the State? There was a wonderful atmosphere on the streets of Dublin with tens of thousands of families in attendance. Does the Taoiseach agree that a crucial factor in that commemoration was the centrality of the Defence Forces, a body of men and women who have always represented a unifying force across all classes and boundaries? Does he agree that a dignified commemoration of the State founded by the heroes of 1916 needs to be at the core of the 2016 events and that the Defence Forces should be at the core of that centenary commemoration?

I have two questions regarding ongoing commemorations. There is always strong public support for State events to be held outside Dublin to address the entire period of the Irish revolution, dating from 1916 to 1921. The Taoiseach mentioned the period prior to that time, which was valid. What will be done outside Dublin and will work be undertaken to facilitate it?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The period will be 2012 to 2022. I thank Deputy Martin for his comments. What we want is a dignified commemoration that is inclusive and covers all of the issues that should be commemorated. As I stated in my reply, local, regional and national events will be covered. I also accept that the Defence Forces, which have been important to the history of our country, should be centrally involved. They bring a particular resonance and importance to all of the occasions in which they participate. This will obviously continue.

The consultation group that the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, chairs is a consultation group with the Government, and all the parties and Independents are reflected there. We want to expand that because the citizens will want an opportunity to send in their views about what issues or events and so on should be commemorated in this decade.

I would also like to involve a group of professional historians who would be able to deliberate and put forward a view on the accuracy and the authenticity of matters that should be considered by Government for inclusion in the programme, which will be debated and discussed with all of the parties here to ensure that we arrive at a situation where we have a dignified sequential series of commemorative events and occasions over that period.

I want the leaders of the other parties to understand that this is not to be considered in any way to be under the sole ownership of any party. This is about our country's history and our military history of days gone by when people had very polarised views about politics. It is a case of getting as inclusive, dignified and appropriate a sequential series of commemorative occasions as possible.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not want to be flippant, but we need to keep an eye on these professional historians. I take it that it will be a broad church.

We discussed the 1916 commemoration during a previous Question Time. What is the update on the possibility of the Government working with Dublin City Council in respect of the rebellion's footprint around the GPO and on the streets of Dublin? Between now and 2016, this situation needs to be turned around to ensure its retrieval for the State. The relatives have pursued this matter with all of the political parties, as that area may make way to a major development. It would make greater sense were a trail and a proper urban context given to the area. This is a question of the preservation of an historic site and area in Dublin. The Government should work with Dublin City Council to ensure this is done by 2016.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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On the occasion of the first meeting in July, the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, outlined the broad range with which the consultation group intends to involve itself. It is open to the group to interact with Dublin City Council, whether it be about Boland's Mill, Moore Street or other relevant locations in the general city centre area, to determine what should be included. This is part of what can be done.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not good at present.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We do not yet have any conclusions to the discussions that have taken place but Deputy Martin can take it that the Minister, Deputy Deenihan, and his consultation group will take these views into account. This is appropriate.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It may be appropriate to have a dignified commemoration of this State but the commemoration of 1916 is not a time to have it. The most important thing that happened in 1916 was that a republic was proclaimed but in my opinion nowhere in Ireland today do we have any sense of this republic. Between sovereignty, people's rights and partition we need a new republic and we should take this opportunity to re-imagine the republic. Part of what the Government should be doing is to encourage this type of conversation.

I commend the committee, comprising mostly relatives of the leaders of the 1916 rising, which has campaigned to secure the future of Nos. 14 to 17 Moore Street. I cannot think of a state in the world where the last place such leaders met is now a derelict shop. Where Pearse gave the surrender note to the British Government is not marked. Thomas Clarke's shop is covered with a plastic piece of neon sheeting. All of this is absolutely obscene. I cannot think of any other place where this would be allowed to happen.

The business of establishing a special consultation group is a good step but it has met only once. There is no clár or schedule. There is no notion of what will happen. Does the Taoiseach expect to be able to bring forward a plan - and when does he expect to do so - whereby this great event in our history will be commemorated? There is a need for the Government to seize the initiative on the development of a freedom quarter, a liberation quarter, cúinne na saoirse or revolutionary quarter in the precincts and environs of the GPO.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We have discussed this previously here as the Deputy is aware. He knows the story in respect of my views about No. 16 Moore Street and the general locality. Without interfering with the legalities of what obtains at present I see real opportunities in this area. Deputy Adams is aware that in September 2006 No. 16 Moore Street was added to the register of protected structures under the Planning and Development Act 2000 by resolution of Dublin City Council because of its historical importance and architectural interest. This listing gives protection to the building, its interior and the land and structure in its curtilage. In January 2007, the then Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Dick Roche, placed a preservation order on the building under the National Monuments Act 1930 as amended because the preservation of No. 16 is considered a matter of national importance due to the historical interest attaching to it. Ministerial consent under section 14 of the National Monuments Act will be required for all works in the area covered by the preservation order.

I understand the planning approval granted by An Bord Pleanála for the redevelopment of the Carlton Cinema site in central Dublin includes a provision relating to the conservation of the national monument at Moore Street. Everybody understands the importance of the events that took place during Easter week at the GPO and the significance of the last command post at No. 16 Moore Street. The proposed development of the Carlton Cinema site, of which Nos. 14 to 17 Moore Street form part, envisages the retention of these buildings and the provision of a commemorative centre to the 1916 rising in No. 16. I was there recently and it is not a very edifying historic centre for what happened in 1916.

An application by the developer for consent to these proposals under section 14 of the National Monuments Act 1930 was submitted to the Minister for the Arts, Heritage and Gaeltacht Affairs on 17 June. I understand the Minister is considering this application and is engaging in extensive consultation with all interested parties for and against the developer's plans. The Minister will have to take into account all relevant views, including those of the Oireachtas consultation group on commemoratives matters which he chairs, prior to making a decision on what is a very important case. I understand the consultation group was at the site recently to look at it themselves.

We all have views on this. The area from the side door of the GPO, turning left to the corner of Moore Street, to the point where the O'Rahilly was shot, to the location where the battery was on top of the Rotunda, to the sidewalk location where the actual surrender took place is very small. With a bit of imagination and interest it could become a location for understanding what happened when the rising took place and eventually led to this country being one of the first small countries to achieve its independence in the 20th century. I respect this as somebody who tried to teach some elements of this to children many years ago. It is not all gone and this is an opportunity to get very much of it right or as right as we can. I expect all parties and Deputies to contribute to a constructive debate in this regard.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach will not mind me stating the country has yet to achieve its independence. The island is still partitioned. Whatever independence was won in this-----

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is why we have the Good Friday Agreement to which the Deputy is a party.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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That is exactly right. Whatever independence we have in this State has been given away.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy knows, the Good Friday Agreement understands Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom with the opportunity to hold a referendum if the people so decide.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Taoiseach but I think I know an awful lot about the Good Friday Agreement. I thank him for his advice.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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And the Deputy knows a lot about other issues as well I would say.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We all know about the Good Friday Agreement. We follow it with a keen interest.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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In many ways we are a great country, and we will agree on this for all the messing-----

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We are a great people.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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-----and we are great people. The unity of our people and of orange and green and all the shades in between should be the objective of this Parliament and it is a constitutional imperative on successive governments. What is happening in the Moore Street environ is a metaphor of the state we are in. Go up the back entry of this iconic building, No. 16 Moore Street, and one will find an open sewer. This is the reality. With regard to the Carlton Cinema site, very few places would commemorate the proclamation of a republic and the first blow against an empire which controlled most of the globe at that time with the type of cinematic modern development that will be put there.

We agree on one thing: there is an opportunity to develop this for educational and historical reasons, for tourism and to show a sense of pride in those who went out and fought and died for the freedom of the people of this island. However, unless the Government decides to do something about it as opposed to the revisionist history we sometimes hear then I fear we will miss this opportunity.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The role of Dublin City Council is crucial with regard to the zoning of the area as an area of special interest, conservation, preservation and historic importance. It contains a number of historical monuments. I have spoken to members on my party who sit on Dublin City Council and I have asked them to take an initiative on this. If the Government met the officials and authority of Dublin City Council it would be a significant catalyst to move this on to get concrete proposals on how between now and 2016 we can lay out a pathway for how the area can be enhanced for once and for all and how it can become a significant place for history and heritage and, for generations to come, an area that can illustrate what happened. I ask the Taoiseach to do this given its overall national significance.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Will the Taoiseach not agree it is a bit tokenistic and a bit of a joke, frankly, to talk about commemorating the 1916 Rebellion when this country is being recolonised by the dictatorship of the EU-IMF?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Just a moment, Deputy. We are dealing with the arrangements for a celebration.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The best commemoration we could have for 1916 is to stand up together and tell the EU-IMF to get off our backs and stop asset-stripping this country-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are other opportunities for the Deputy to raise that issue. I ask the Taoiseach to reply to the relevant question.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not think what Deputy Boyd Barrett said was a question.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is a question.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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How will the Deputy pay next year's bills?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The four houses are believed to date from 1756 to 1773. Numbers 15 to 17 date from approximately 1763 but were refaced in about 1880. The buildings are in the private ownership of Chartered Land Limited and form part of an extensive site in the O'Connell Street-Henry Street area of Dublin which CLL proposes to develop. Dublin City Council granted permission to CLL in December 2008 for the development of the 2.17 hectare development incorporating the national monument site. As a prescribed body, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government commented on the initial planning application in May 2008 and identified a number of concerns relating to architectural heritage, height, demolition of certain buildings and the impact on the character of O'Connell Street. The Department's concerns were addressed in the redesign of the project, for example, with the inclusion of a screen along O'Connell Street to reinforce the street facade, the omission of the tall building element onto Henry Street, the overall reduction in height of the tallest element of the development and its relocation to the centre of the site where the visual impact from surrounding areas would be lessened. The granting of planning permission was appealed to An Bord Pleanála which, following an oral hearing, approved the development with the modifications on 24 March 2010.

As regards the national monument-designated buildings, approval was given by An Bord Pleanála for the demolition of the non-original additions and partitions, extensions to the rear and the lowering of the basement. However, the foregoing was subject to the stipulation that no works could commence until ministerial consent had been obtained under the National Monuments Act for any works that might impact on the monument site at numbers 14 to 17 Moore Street. The buildings require ongoing maintenance works to ensure their structural protection pending a full programme of refurbishment works. In 2006, and prior to the preservation order being placed on the site, some stabilisation works were carried out in agreement with Dublin City Council's enforcement section. An application for consent for further works was made by Shaffrey Associates Architects in February 2010 and was approved by the Minister in May 2010 following consultation with the director of the National Museum of Ireland. In summary, the works involved temporary stabilisation works to elements of the structure, prevention of fabric loss, elimination of water seepage, maintenance of suitable environmental conditions to ensure preservation of fabric and removal of vegetation. In December 2010, as an extension to the existing consent, ministerial approval was given for the removal of mid and later-20th century finishes to enable the carrying out of a proper condition and historic survey of the building fabric and structure.

A formal consent for application for works was submitted to the Department by the developer on 17 June. The proposals, which comprised the conservation of Nos. 14 to 17 Moore Street as a commemorative centre to facilitate interpretation of the significant cultural history relating to the events of Easter 1916, must now be considered by the Department, prior to consultation with the director of the National Museum of Ireland. The Minister's formal consent will be required before any works can begin. The Minister, Deputy Deenihan, has visited the site and he will consider matters such as the preservation, protection and maintenance of the archaeological, historical or other cultural heritage or amenities of or associated with the national monument.