Dáil debates

Tuesday, 11 October 2011

3:00 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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As the Taoiseach knows, one of the most important issues in west Dublin is the services offered by the James Connolly Hospital. This morning I visited it to discuss the situation with staff and management. The local community rely on the hospital and the status of the promises and commitment that are now being made and handed out by Fine Gael and Labour public representatives is of major concern to them. The Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton and the Minister for Transport, Deputy Leo Varadkar said last week, "The retained level of service in Connolly A&E is of enormous importance to the Dublin West community and I welcome the assurances that this service will be retained". Two weeks ago Deputy Reilly brought cameras with him to open a unit, which had been up and running and operating for the past year and a half. This was pitched as a sign of his great commitment to the hospital but in reality it was a cheap by-election photoshoot.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should look at himself.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Sunday Independent, on page 8.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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A few days after the visit, staff received a memorandum detailing closures which will undermine the supposedly secured services.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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You learned that off.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is cynical in the extreme. As we know from Roscommon, a clear electoral commitment to keep hospital accident and emergency services can be denied even when there is a tape recording of it. What is the exact status of the commitment currently being handed out to the communities which use James Connolly Hospital? Are they personal, party or Government commitments? Will the Taoiseach confirm that extra funding will be made available to allow James Connolly Hospital to continue to provide the full services to the end of this year?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am not going to take lectures in cynicism from that side of the House.

Photo of Billy KelleherBilly Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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In deceit.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In view of the current budgetary situation the efficiency of services is being reviewed by the Health Service Executive. It has emphasised that budgetary compliance must be maintained alongside the delivery of service levels that are set out in the national service plan. Activity and expenditure at the hospital are ahead of levels approved in the 2011 national service plan. A comprehensive review of services has been undertaken by the HSE. As a consequence the following measures are to be taken - a reduction in the use of agency staff and overtime hours; temporary closure of the surgical day ward for two weeks from 24 October 2011 which will reopen on 7 November 2011 with a reduction from 24 to eight places; a further temporary closure of three weeks is planned for 19 December; and the phased closure of 12 inpatient surgical beds between now and the end of the year.

The Minister has confirmed it is not the intention to close the hospital and 24 hour accident and emergency services will continue to be provided there.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I hope there was never any question of closing the accident and emergency department. There has been huge investment in the hospital over the years in cardiology, respiratory, geriatric, rehabilitation and endoscopy services. The Taoiseach has confirmed the closure of 12 surgical beds. Yet, only a few weeks ago Ministers told people existing services would be retained and that they welcomed the assurances in that regard. Deputies Varadkar and Burton made such comments.

Only seven months ago the Taoiseach said he had all the answers to problems in accident and emergency departments and that they would be delivered on by the end of this year. There was no small print attached to his commitments. The only difference between now and then in terms of the public finances is that they are better than projected and ahead of target. Ministers, candidates and canvassers are handing out information on specific promises to protect services in hospital but on the floor of the House the Taoiseach confirmed 12 surgical beds will be closed and other beds will be closed for five weeks. He described temporary closures of two weeks and three weeks-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are out of time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----in addition to other closures. Will the Taoiseach release all amendments to the existing service plans of the hospital before people vote in two weeks time? We do not want what happened with the comprehensive spending review to happen again, when information was hidden before polling day in order that people could not see the options before them in terms of public expenditure.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The announcement to which I referred was made on 5 October 2011 by the hospital manager following a meeting between the hospital executive team and it was communicated to staff by a memo on that day. The 24 hour accident and emergency unit in the hospital is safe. The hospital is not being closed. As I said, some beds will be closed because the hospital is over budget. It signed up to a budget at the beginning of the year.

The announcement made was communicated to all staff by the hospital manager in the context of a review that was being carried out, as is required. The HSE reviewed other possible options to save money or increase revenue but concluded they would not generate sufficient savings in the short term. Cost reductions from the measures I listed are estimated by the HSE to save approximately €180,000 between now and year end. The Minister, Deputy Reilly, visited the hospital last week and I am glad the Deputy took the opportunity to visit it.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Remember Liam Lawlor.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This hospital, no more than any other, is obliged to deliver within its budget and for that reason some beds have been closed on a temporary basis because the hospital is over budget.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Tá a fhios againn go bhfuil a lán rudaí tábhachtacha agus práinneacha ag tarlú san AE agus tá súil agam go mbeidh seans againn iad a phlé níos moille. Bhí mé chun caint leis an Taoiseach inniu faoin fhóram dhomhanda faoi eacnamaíocht na hÉireann. Rinne an Taoiseach jab maith ansin agus déanaim comhghairdeas leis. Tá a lán oibre le déanamh ach tús maith leath na hoibre. Bhí mé ag caint leathuair ó shin le baill de chlann Pat Finucane agus tá siad iontach mí-shásta le cruinniú a bhí acu le Rialtas Shasana.

I commend the Taoiseach on the good job the Government did at the weekend with the global Irish economic forum, although there is a lot more to be done.

Within the past half hour I spoke to a member of the Finucane family. The person concerned had a meeting with the British Prime Minister in Downing Street and is devastated and hugely upset by the British Government's refusal to honour the Weston Park agreement and establish an inquiry into the murder of the human rights lawyer, Pat Finucane.

The Taoiseach will recall that both Governments agreed to invite the Canadian judge, Peter Cory to examine a number of cases. He recommended investigations into four cases. He said the case of Pat Finucane, in particular, deserved an inquiry. The other three investigations have taken place but the Finucane case has not had the promised inquiry. The family went to the meeting today believing it would be told an inquiry was to be established. Instead it was told a QC would be appointed to review the papers and speak to those involved. There will be no inquiry, legal redress, access to papers or witnesses or opportunity to cross-examine anyone.

The family has been offered less than what was agreed at Weston Park. It is clearly a breach by the British Government of an agreement with the Irish Government. It flies in the face of the support the family received from successive Governments, the UN, Amnesty International and a host of international agencies and political leaders, including those in Washington. I ask the Taoiseach to make it clear to Mr. Cameron his view and that of the Dáil that the we support the family and nothing less than the inquiry demanded by the family is acceptable.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Glacaim buíochas leis an Teachta as ucht freastal ar an fhóram dhomhanda faoi eacnamaíocht na hÉireann agus, go deimhin, chuir sé cúpla ceist phráinneach agus oiriúnach ag an chomhdháil

I spoke to the British Prime Minister this morning who contacted me about his meeting with the Finucane family. He indicated to me it was his intention to get to the truth of this matter as quickly as possible and issue an apology in respect of the death of Pat Finucane. I indicated to him it is one of the few issues in the House on which there was all-party agreement that there should be an inquiry, following the initial findings of Judge Peter Cory and the Weston Park agreement. He informed me of the nature of what he proposed to say to the Finucane family. I indicated to him that the House unanimously supported Geraldine Finucane in her search for the truth and the issues surrounding the death of her husband, Pat.

When the meeting concluded the Prime Minister's office informed the Department of the Taoiseach of the outcome. I understand it was not satisfactory for the Finucane family. I have not changed my view in respect of this issue. All parties in the House unanimously called for an inquiry based on the findings of Judge Peter Cory and the wishes of the family. That is the position.

I indicated quite clearly to the Prime Minister that if Geraldine Finucane was not happy with what was on offer we would not be happy either. I respected his wish to say that what is needed is the truth and an apology arising from the message from the office of the Prime Minister. I spoke with the Tánaiste who will, in due course, invite Geraldine Finucane and her family to the House for a discussion on the meeting and where we go from here.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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My understanding is that Geraldine Finucane cut the meeting short. I have spoken to successive British Prime Ministers about this issue. We need to understand the nub of the issue. Nothing like the Pat Finucane case illustrates the amount of collusion that took place during the conflict. The current British Government played no part in that collusion, therefore Mr. Cameron should be liberated to do what was promised to the family at Weston Park. Today's telephone call was probably the first conversation the Taoiseach had with Mr. Cameron since 17 May. I appreciate and accept entirely the Taoiseach's commitment to this issue of a full inquiry for the Finucane family but the Government must press this hard. Once again the British Government is looking to play a long game on the issue and it is not fair. It would not be fair for any victim of the conflict and it is certainly not fair when the victim is an officer of the court, a human rights lawyer and a person whom it is rightly suspected, and there is lots of evidence to support this, was killed by agents of the British Crown. I ask the Taoiseach on the back of his fulsome commitment to press this issue with Mr. Cameron with all urgency.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As Deputy Adams is well aware, the truth in these matters is sacrosanct and central to a conclusion. I respect the Prime Minister's wish that there should be the truth arrived at in the shortest possible time and obviously that an apology be issued to those bereaved by the loss of their father and husband.

From that point of view, I have not spoken to the Prime Minister since July but I was clear in my last conversation with him about this matter and was clear again today and will be clear again when I meet with him. I cannot force the British Government to do this. We have had numerous questions about this over the years when I was in Opposition and now the British Government has set out its stall that it does not want a long list of open-ended inquiries. There is in these matters no price that can be put on the truth. I expect the Tánaiste will be in contact with Geraldine Finucane and her family and will invite them for a discussion on the meeting.

The Deputy can take it that in so far as the Government is concerned, once the Finucane family are not happy with what is on offer, we stand by our decision before of continuing to look for an inquiry in this matter arising from the findings of Judge Cory, which were very clear and in respect of which there are a million pieces of information now in respect of the whole Finucane killing which may or may not yield the truth of this matter in so far as allegations of collusion were concerned. That is the position; the unanimous decision of the Dáil previously still stands and I hope to have the opportunity to speak to Geraldine Finucane shortly.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The extensive leaks from the report of the Keane group on distressed mortgages will be greeted with bitter disappointment by the 95,000 homeowners in mortgage difficulties, of whom 40,000 or more are in arrears of more than six months. While there may be a few speculators among these, the vast majority are victims of the greed of developers and Irish bankers, facilitated by European bankers and speculators. They gouged from ordinary workers who needed a home those obscene prices and the massive monthly mortgages are now creating a major crisis as workers lose their jobs and experience draconian cuts to their incomes, including budget cuts, causing enormous distress and mental suffering.

The Taoiseach knows that but the Keane report tinkers around the problem, offering guidelines to banks, which are "strongly encouraged" to follow them. Is it serious that the very institutions that were central to the profiteering and speculation that caused this crisis are now largely being looked at to resolve it? Their victims are now being thrown to the tender mercies of the banks. It is like sending a bunch of marauding foxes that had raided a henhouse back to give mouth to mouth resuscitation to their victims. Is the Government going to tolerate this situation?

Is it not clear that the substance to a solution is to revise downwards the blackmail prices people were forced to pay for their homes to real value of today and to calibrate downward the monthly repayments so workers can resume meeting their commitments and stay in their homes? These people were victims of these conspirators for profit, supported by the Government. Indeed, Fine Gael was very quiet on the speculation that was going on. Can the Taoiseach look home-owning taxpayers in the eye and say that the Government will not allow any write-down of what is tied around their necks when three weeks from now, he will authorise a €700 million payment to an unsecured Anglo Irish Bank bondholder, with €3.5 billion to be paid by the end of June? What will the Government do? Was this discussed this morning and what was the Taoiseach's decision?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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For Deputy Higgins's information, I appreciate the anxiety and concern of so many people who are so afflicted by mortgage distress. The Government will publish the report tomorrow in full and it will be debated in the House next week for two days if necessary whereby everyone who wants to contribute can do so.

The report furnished to the Government is not the repository of all wisdom but there are two fundamental principles that must be referred to here - the necessity to maintain people in their own homes and to distinguish between those who cannot pay and those who will not pay. I assure the Deputy this is a matter of concern and priority for the Government. When the debate concludes next week, the Minister for Finance will take the strands of what everyone has to say and, in the event there are new ideas, initiatives or matters not referred to in the report or not currently in existence, we will be happy to hear from every Deputy who has an idea that might be worth pursuing. The Minister will draw all of those together and the Government will respond quickly by making decisions. This is a matter that will not be long-fingered and is an issue we intend to follow through on very quickly.

The report will be published tomorrow, there will be a two day debate next week and as all these strands run together, the Minister will respond by drawing them together in the best interests of the individual circumstances that apply in so many cases while adhering to the two principles I have mentioned; that people are not forced out of their homes and that there is a distinction between those who can and those who will not pay.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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People are being forced out of their homes. There were almost 1,000 repossessions in one form or another in the past two years. A United Left Alliance colleague of mine is dealing with a family who were ordered to be on the streets at 12 p.m. tomorrow, a husband, wife and three children, on the orders of a subprime mortgage lender. That is the reality of the distress and suffering that exists. She has intervened and hopefully there will be more breathing space and a resolution perhaps but is it not the case that if the exorbitant, speculative, profiteering prices that young workers in their 20s and 30s were forced to pay are written down to the real current level, and monthly mortgage payments are written down, not only does it resolve the crisis for many of these home owners, it would put perhaps billions into the real economy that could not otherwise be spent on jobs and services, helping to regenerate and stimulate the economy that is languishing because of the disastrous austerity the Government is pursuing?

Is it not the case that of the huge amounts of recapitalisation money that has been put into the banks by the taxpayer at the Government's behest, about €5 billion is to go towards distressed mortgages? Where is the relief for the taxpayers who paid that money? Can the Taoiseach stand by and deny real relief with the amount he insists on paying to unsecured bondholders, an incredible €17 billion in interest alone for the promissory note for Anglo Irish Bank bondholders over the next 20 years, and €30 billion of substantial payments?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Higgins has raised two matters, namely, mortgage distress and those who are suffering it and the issue of the banks. First, we want alternatives to having people lose their homes. That is a fundamental principle which we want to hold on to. Second, we must distinguish between those who cannot pay and those who will not pay. That must be addressed.

There will be no automatic blanket write-down. If the Deputy has not already received the report he will receive it tomorrow. I ask him to read it and study it over the weekend. He will have an opportunity to contribute to the debate next week.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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What is the Taoiseach's thinking on the matter?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If the Deputy has new ideas-----

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I just gave the Taoiseach some.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----which are not currently in practice or recommended in the report I would like to hear them from him.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I have just given the Taoiseach ideas.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government will respond quickly to this by drawing all of these threads together. The Minister for Finance will present his proposals to the Government and will then act immediately.

There is also the question of being able to deal with personal insolvency, as a matter of some urgency.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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We know that. The Government will leave people to the mercy of the banks.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Justice and Equality is currently concluding the heads of the Bill which will go to the Cabinet committee where it will be discussed, with a view to introducing legislation in respect of personal insolvency as quickly as possible.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Can we not simply write down mortgage debt and let people breath?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We are serious about drawing all the threads of everyone's opportunities together. This concerns real people who if they are in mortgage distress have that anxiety and concern every day.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Then take the albatross from around their necks.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The legislation must also address the difference between those who cannot pay and those who will not pay.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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More lifestyle choices. It is now a lifestyle choice not to pay one's mortgage, I suppose.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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If you don't have money you cannot pay.