Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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It often comes as a big surprise to parents to discover how the education system works and the manner in which it is structured. While the Department pays teachers' salaries, the latter are not employees of the Department and while the curriculum is decided at national level, responsibility for hiring people competent to deliver it resides with boards of management. Another issue which arises from the structure of the education system is the absence of common enrolment policies. The issue I raise is serious because competence in mathematics and science is at question. Those who have a degree or strong foundation in mathematics or science are most qualified to teach these subjects. They are, however, the very people who are most likely to find work in industry. This explains the reason such a high number of such individuals have been enticed from teaching these subjects. There is not an easy solution to the problem. We should not learn the lessons that can be learned from countries such as Finland where teachers are held in high respect and recruitment is not a problem across the curriculum.

The introduction of project maths could attract a significant number of teachers and students to return to the subject of mathematics. While the project has shown early promise, teachers have expressed concerns that it is being rolled out in a piecemeal manner and that large parts of the syllabus do not fit easily in the curriculum.

It is highly unsatisfactory that we cannot establish with any degree of certainty the level of competence among science and mathematics teachers. A survey of only one third of second level schools found that three in every ten teachers did not appear to have attained the standard required to teach mathematics, especially at higher level. I recall my son telling me about his first day on his engineering course when his lecturer asked half of the students present in the lecture theatre to stand up. The group was then told that this was the number who would move into second year of the course. If students do not have a proper foundation in mathematics and science when they start university courses such as engineering, the country loses the potential to bring them through education and into industry. This loss has serious ramifications for the country.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I thank Deputy Catherine Murphy for raising this issue, which provides me with an opportunity to outline some of the ongoing developments in mathematics and science that are most pertinent to the matter she has put forward for debate. Providing for high quality teaching and learning of mathematics and science is of strategic importance to the State and I welcome the opportunity to discuss the issue in the House.

As part of the Government's overall strategy to improve the teaching and learning of mathematics in schools, a number of initiatives have been introduced in recent years. Deputy Murphy referred to the project maths initiative, the aim of which is to change how mathematics is taught and learned in post-primary schools. Its purpose is to show how mathematics connects with real life problems and how skills developed in the subject can be used in other subjects, the workplace and at home. It also aims to change attitudes to mathematics and encourage more students to take the subject at higher level in their examinations and study mathematics and mathematics related subjects in college.

The Government is committed to the full roll-out of project maths, which is supported by industry, colleges and universities. The roll-out of the programme is supported by a comprehensive programme of professional development for all teachers of mathematics. By the end of 2012, teachers will have been offered six workshops, and a range of supplementary evening courses and teaching resources has been made available. A bonus points system for mathematics for third level entry has also been introduced on a trial basis.

The Teaching Council, about which questions have been raised in certain quarters, is an independent body which operates at arm's length to the Department. The council sets standards for teacher qualifications across the curriculum. It was established on a statutory basis in March 2006 to promote the professional development of teachers and regulate standards in the profession.

Under section 38 of the Teaching Council Act 2001, the council shall "review the standards of education and training appropriate to a person entering a programme of teacher education and training" and "review the standards of knowledge, skill and competence required for the practice of teaching and shall advise the Minister". To be registered as a teacher of mathematics with the Teaching Council, a person is required to have a recognised teaching qualification and degree in which mathematics represents at least 30% of the course over at least three years and which qualifies him or her to teach the syllabus to the highest level. As part of its ongoing remit, the Teaching Council is reviewing the registration criteria for teaching subjects on the post-primary curriculum, including mathematics and science, and will publish its decisions in this regard as soon as they are finalised. The appointment and deployment of teachers is a matter for individual schools. Schools have been directed by my Department, as far as practicable, to appoint only appropriately qualified and registered teachers.

The Teaching Council recently carried out the survey of post-primary schools to which the Deputy referred to ascertain the qualifications of mathematics teachers. I acknowledge the rate of response highlighted by the Deputy. Preliminary results show 68% of teachers teaching mathematics in 258 schools are fully qualified to do so, 29% have undergone some studies in mathematics and only 2% do not have any third level qualifications or studies in mathematics. The survey findings will help us obtain a clearer picture of what is happening in schools and allow us to plan to meet training needs. The schools have until 26 September to respond.

The Department is keen to arrive at a position in which all teachers of mathematics have a qualification in the subject. It is making arrangements for the provision of a new training programme for mathematics teachers which will provide unqualified mathematics teachers with the opportunity to upskill their knowledge of the subject and study the strategies best suited to the new project maths syllabuses. Tenders will be invited shortly.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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Will the public service recruitment embargo be an impediment if new recruits are required to address deficiencies in the education system? Will the embargo be set aside to ensure the level of competency is regularised across the system?

If one set out to design an education system, one would not design one as fragmented as that which is in place. We have a disconnect between those who pay teachers and those who employ them. How did we arrive at a position in which it was considered satisfactory to employ people who did not have the required skill sets? What strategic changes will be made to the system to ensure this problem does not recur? While it is fine to have the Teaching Council decide on levels of competence, the boards of management of schools cannot be compelled to employ anyone as they have the freedom to employ whom they wish. What action will the Department take to address this major difficulty? This problem could arise again if the disconnect to which I alluded is not addressed.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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We can overcome the challenges facing us notwithstanding the recruitment embargo. The national centre of excellence in the University of Limerick is doing a great deal of work in the area of continuing professional development to enable teachers to attain the required standard. In addition, there are conversion courses that can be done. In this way we can ensure we have a coterie of teachers with the right skill sets to help us to achieve our aims.

The question of how we got to this point is one that would have to be teased out over a longer time period than the two minutes I have. However, if we are open to the challenge, which we are, we must find out where we need to go.

Deputy Murphy raised valid issues about fragmentation, with which I agree. We must ensure there is standardisation across the board and that the Teaching Council and the individual boards of management are singing from the same hymn sheet in terms of what we need to achieve. However, I am confident that the Project Maths initiative, in spite of whatever hiccups it may have along the way, will ensure we can help the students currently achieving E, F and NG grades to move up the scale. I am less concerned about those currently achieving A, B and C grades. The introduction of bonus points for maths will facilitate those students who choose not to do honours maths because it is time consuming. They can devote more time to ordinary level maths and still get a reasonable number of points.

There will be a tender process for training and continuing professional development. We are engaging with industry and academia in this regard, but there are challenges. We will not turn the ship around within the next 12 months. However, we are engaging with the issue in a deeper fashion than heretofore. Based on the soundings I have taken outside of the usual advisory groups - I have delved into academia and sought the views of individual teachers - there is a sense that if we stay on track with Project Maths, we can tackle the qualitative and quantitative issues involved in getting grades up.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I will have to call the Minister of State to a halt as we must move on to deal with other issues.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I apologise for not giving Deputy Murphy a more comprehensive answer, but I will be happy to engage further with her on an individual basis.